Healthcare

[Seamus Colemole]

and i bet they're the ones with the unobstructed seats....all 17 of 'em.

And are probably too blind to see anything anyway.

 

[toffeestillidie]

in good ol GB its usually only the bad/sad stories that make it to the public conscience (if there is even one left now) - the postcode lottery makes the news weekly, last week it was the story of certain pain killers being refused to all cancer sufferers due to cost vs benefit.

taking on board your point about the pharmaceutical companies, and then going off on a tangent, the chinese dont respect international patents, so why not get them to mass produce all the drugs everyone needs and say 'balls' to the drug companies that are prepared to let people die in what can only be described as a calculated and malevolent agenda.


some lyrics :-

"Why is marijuana not legal? Why is marijuana not legal?
It's a natural plant that grows in the dirt.
Do you know what's not natural?
80 year old dudes with hard-ons. That's not natural.
But we got pills for that.
We're dedicating all our medical resources to keeping the old guys erect,
but we're putting people in jail for something that grows in the dirt?

You know we have more prescription drugs now.
Every commercial that comes on TV is a prescription drug ad.
I can't watch TV for four minutes without thinking I have five serious diseases.
Like: "Do you ever wake up tired in the morning?"
Oh my god I have this, write this down. Whatever it is, I have it.
Half the time I don't even know what the commercial is:
people running in fields or flying kites or swimming in the ocean.
I'm like that is the greatest disease ever. How do you get that?
That disease comes with a hot chick and a puppy."

some youtube :-

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G33WvuOw2cI[/media]

we had a fantastic [Poor language removed] up in britain about 8 months ago where medical graduates promised positions in the nhs were told when they came for their jobs that there were none. so a lot have since taken their skills to AUS and the US. i cant say how much the country contributed towards educating those people, but the sheer galling incompetence of not finding places for the best to stay and contribute to the system here is mind boggling.

Also, private health care here is on the increase in a BIG way.

is that a chris rock quote, cos i remember him saying something remarkably close but i don't think that was it exactly.

 

[TX Bill]

http://www.dcexaminer.com/opinion/c...e_grass_greener_with_socialized_medicine.html

Ouch !!!

Heh.

 

[Nebbiolo]

great thats what i figured. i tell people about the drug adverts all the time as an example of our big pharmaceutical is raping the US, the reason our healthcare costs are so high is that so much money is being spent convincing people that they're sick.

with my job i had to talk to people alot about healthcare, and you wouldn't believe the amount of times i'd heard "it's not working in canada / england", when the people hadn't even been there.

I'm surprised that there is a perception that the health system doesn't work in the UK (or anywhere else in "socialist" Europe). It really isn't great but I think the majority of individuals over in GB, right or left-leaning, would say precisely the opposite. In fact, it is common for us Brits to cite American healthcare as precisely the model that ought not to be followed. We get into one of those "isn't is shameful that in America the poor cannot afford healthcare" bitchin' sessions whenever it hits the agenda. In saying that the system isn't perfect and perhaps we need to look further at cutting costs so that the most needed treatments are usually readily available. I'm comfortable with non-urgent treatments being withheld (all the cosmetic stuff, given for "psychological reasons, the use of fertility treatment etc, etc). I'm also happy that the rich get a nice tax increase so that more money is available to pour into the system.

 

[TX Bill]

No system is perfect. Right on there.

So given a choice, and all things being equal, I'll take the one we have here in the USA every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[Dylan]

I'm surprised that there is a perception that the health system doesn't work in the UK (or anywhere else in "socialist" Europe). It really isn't great but I think the majority of individuals over in GB, right or left-leaning, would say precisely the opposite. In fact, it is common for us Brits to cite American healthcare as precisely the model that ought not to be followed. We get into one of those "isn't is shameful that in America the poor cannot afford healthcare" bitchin' sessions whenever it hits the agenda. In saying that the system isn't perfect and perhaps we need to look further at cutting costs so that the most needed treatments are usually readily available. I'm comfortable with non-urgent treatments being withheld (all the cosmetic stuff, given for "psychological reasons, the use of fertility treatment etc, etc). I'm also happy that the rich get a nice tax increase so that more money is available to pour into the system.

It is law that NOBODY can be refused medical care. If somebody comes in they can not be turned away for lack of insurance.

Plus there are all the free clinics (which are just as crowded as the NHS waiting lists) and all the providers who do free work at the big hospitals. I know at least two providers at one of the top pediatric children's hospital in the US who do not charge for the work. Which means a lot more people get the treatment than they need.

Our system isn't perfect, but having experienced both systems, I actually prefer the American one (my whole family went onto private healthcare in the UK after I came back to the US, so take that as you will).

 

[Nebbiolo]

Plus there are all the free clinics (which are just as crowded as the NHS waiting lists) and all the providers who do free work at the big hospitals. I know at least two providers at one of the top pediatric children's hospital in the US who do not charge for the work.

I would assume that the level of care given does equate with that of your policy or the amount of wealth that you've accrued.

I'm guessing Joe Bloggs, minimum wage worker from Detroit would be in danger of receiving poorer care than his sister, Josephine Bloggs, lawyer from Boston.

Hey, but I'm just a dumb-ass Brit who likes to see fair play and believes that the poorest and the richest ought, in theory, to be valued equally by society.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

It is law that NOBODY can be refused medical care. If somebody comes in they can not be turned away for lack of insurance.

Plus there are all the free clinics (which are just as crowded as the NHS waiting lists) and all the providers who do free work at the big hospitals. I know at least two providers at one of the top pediatric children's hospital in the US who do not charge for the work. Which means a lot more people get the treatment than they need.

Our system isn't perfect, but having experienced both systems, I actually prefer the American one (my whole family went onto private healthcare in the UK after I came back to the US, so take that as you will).

So instead of saying no we wont treat you you have no insurance they say ok we will treat you but leave you with a nice big medical bill afterwards?

Whats the law on payment of said bill?

 

[TX Tiburon]

Socialized Medicine.

Not going to be coming to the USA anytime soon.

Thank goodness.

Uh oh.... care to revise this one? But I am with you Bill. I still have my hopes that the "public servants" will heed public sentiment. But I fear that the ivory rotunda has locked on to the public option.

 

[TX Tiburon]

I came to the ale house to look for some honest insights from those in the UK who have partaken in the public healthcare. Like Toffeestillidie, I would like to hear some more about the positives and negatives straight from personal reality.

 

[NeoNaoNeo]

It's healthcare. Every time a member of my family has gone in there, unless their disease terminal, has gotten better. And it was free.

Can't see what more you'd want.

 

[TX Tiburon]

It's healthcare. Every time a member of my family has gone in there, unless their disease terminal, has gotten better. And it was free.

Can't see what more you'd want.

I hear what you are saying... but nothing is free. As I understand it, you pay a value added tax on most products and services in the UK. Part of your taxes go toward that free healthcare. Chances are, there really is no telling how much that free healthcare is costing you.

But I am really more interested in the quality and application of care. Are there long waits for certain procedures? Are some procedures rationed? Do you feel that you get timely and appropriate care? I am sure there are horror stories but what about good testimonials along with the bad?

 

[TX Bill]

It's gonna be a complete cluster&%*$ IF (and that's a big IF) Obama can ram it through Congress.

Personally, I don't think it's gonna get done.

Harry Reid is facing issues in his home state of Nevada (i.e. reelection) due to his backing of this unpopular bill. You'll see other Dems lose face with many of their constituents over this as well as they're trying to ride a fine line.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

I hear what you are saying... but nothing is free. As I understand it, you pay a value added tax on most products and services in the UK. Part of your taxes go toward that free healthcare. Chances are, there really is no telling how much that free healthcare is costing you.

But I am really more interested in the quality and application of care. Are there long waits for certain procedures? Are some procedures rationed? Do you feel that you get timely and appropriate care? I am sure there are horror stories but what about good testimonials along with the bad?

well it doesn't cost you more if you use it any more. i would say that most people will use it in some form each year, be it in the form of going to their doctor or a & e etc. you could go every day and it wouldnt cost you any more, my son had to have an op after he was born, the cost was about £34,000 or something, i didnt get a bill or anything, in fact i only found out during legal proceedings. my father-in-law is having chemotherapy, he doesnt have to pay, what would a course of chemo cost if he did ? could he afford it ?

if you want private treatment for anything you can get it, there is an issue that if people pay for private healthcare then should they contribute to the nhs, well the nhs would still be available to them whenever thay need it, so are they saying that they should be on a list of people excluded from nhs treatment ? i'm sure they would like an nhs ambulance to arrive at the scene of a roadcrash and nhs paramedics save their lives should they need it.

there are waiting lists for operations, but tbh i dont know anyone who's had to wait for any excessive length of time, also now you can travel within the european union for treatment if it can be done sooner than here. there are issues with some things such as the postcode lottery for medication, and the fact that in scotland and wales you dont pay for prescriptions.

 

[TX Tiburon]

Reidy, sorry to hear about both your son and father-in-law requiring so much care. I can relate. My father-in-law has had various cancer treatments over the past 9 years. I am sure that the bills have been astronomical. But between his private insurance and the government (ie taxpayer) sponsored medicare, he has paid only a small portion.

Can you tell me a little about the market for private healthcare? Do many people choose to pursue this option? If so, why? Is the market for private healthcare an indicator of dissatisfaction or a flaw in the dispensing of the public care?

One comment about the care not costing more regardless of the amount of access. That may be, depending on the capacity of the care providers and facilities. But if everyone were to begin accessing 10% more care each year, certainly the demand would outstrip the supply causing shortages in provider time and possibly medical supplies or even budgeted GBP's of the NHS.