Current Affairs George Floyd and Minneapolis Unrest

[Debunkology]

1 in 1000 black men can expected to be killed by police. 1 in 2500 for white men. Either statistic is horrifying, but the difference is unconscionable

Ok.

So, Black people are 2.5x more likely to be killed by police than white people in USA.

They are also far more likely to rob, steal, and victimize others. Far greater than 2.5x. (try 6x and 7x etc)

This is the point that everybody misses.

If you have a group that puts their hands in the fire more often, then that group is going to get burnt more often. Who woulda thought hey?

Sure. There are other issues at play. But this doesn't mean every cop in the USA is racist. American cops are brutal full stop.


Black people are also 7x more likely to murder someone in USA.

Blacks are more likely to victimize whites than whites are to victimize blacks.

https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3226952/Sampson_RacialEthnicDisparities.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y

Blacks are 6x more likely to be robbed and murdered than whites. Because they live in black areas.



Why do people continually ignore the elephant in the room?


There's probably been 4 black people shot today in Chicago alone, by other black men. No one cares about that. BLM don't.

 

[TheBigIguana]

"why they deserve to be abused" - No I'm not. And I've been very clear on it, which is why it's disturbing you'd make that claim.

I hate making affirmations when people are (perhaps intentionally) mischaracterizing my positions. But we had a good dialogue going, so for the sake of that -police abuse resulting from desensitization of police or prejudice or whatever is morally and legally wrong. That doesn't mean it's not predictable and likely to reoccur.

The reason your sexual assault example doesn't work is because we're not talking about victim and perpetrator. We're talking about victim (victim of brutality), perpetrator (cop), and other bad actor (those committing the violence in said cop's beat). I'm not claiming that victims of police brutality "had it coming". I'm stating that it's not realistic to expect cops to go into bad neighborhoods everyday and see people killed and see rapes and see people beat up and for them to still act like the angels who always make the right decision every time. It's just not going to happen.

I want police brutality to end, which is why pie in the sky "cops should just do better" isn't a compelling argument to me.

Well we aren't talking solutions here because I don't think we've even gotten to the point where we're all understanding the problem. Clearly it is more complex than "do better."

I had no intention of mischaracterizing anything, and in fact given what you've written here I'm still not sure I am. You're argument is basically that this is an unavoidable product of the environment. But it isn't. There are good cops, but the culture as a whole produces way too many bad ones who abuse people regularly. If it was an environment thing they would all be doing this and that isn't the case.

What I struggle with is why the idea that police should fear even high crime communities is acceptable. These people should be viewed as neighbors, friends, community members and above all people. There is no reason to be fearful in general. Yes there may be certain people who are dangerous, I know that is true, but those people aren't everyone and so it isn't how you should view everyone.

The best thing I can say for this whole idea that the environment is something to work on is that less crime would mean in theory less interaction between the police and civilians. That by its nature would reduce police brutality. But I've seen the way police will car stop people in certain neighborhoods for anything and everything or jump out on random corners when nothing is really going on. If that doesn't change will a crime reduction actually have an effect on the abuse coming from the police.

I just think this is a one way fix. The police treat people better and hold themselves accountable when they don't, plus removing those who show they can't, and we start to get a handle on this.

As an aside read this if you have the time and desire and let me know what you think. It's pretty much the poster child for a high fear environment, but I don't think it in any way explains why some of the stuff happens like it does. Fear isn't causing it. It is a combination of power, greed and hatred.

Baltimore's Most Hated Cop And Me

An All-American Story

www.huffpost.com

 

[Prevenger17]

Ok.

So, Black people are 2.5x more likely to be killed by police than white people in USA.

They are also far more likely to rob, steal, and victimize others. Far greater than 2.5x. (try 6x and 7x etc)

This is the point that everybody misses.

If you have a group that puts their hands in the fire more often, then that group is going to get burnt more often. Who woulda thought hey?

Sure. There are other issues at play. But this doesn't mean every cop in the USA is racist. American cops are brutal full stop.


Black people are also 7x more likely to murder someone in USA.

Blacks are more likely to victimize whites than whites are to victimize blacks.

https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3226952/Sampson_RacialEthnicDisparities.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y

Blacks are 6x more likely to be robbed and murdered than whites. Because they live in black areas.



Why do people continually ignore the elephant in the room?


There's probably been 4 black people shot today in Chicago alone, by other black men. No one cares about that. BLM don't.

I don't like what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to barge into this thread in a conical white hood and start swinging

 

[Deckard2049]

Don’t think it can be argued that black Americans are subject to worse behaviour from police than the white population. That’s not the point I’m going to make. This whole incident reminds me of this story:

From 2017: Video Shows Daniel Shaver Pleading for His Life Before Being Shot by Officer (Published 2017)

The video, released after an Arizona jury acquitted the officer of murder, renewed calls for reforms in law enforcement. Activists described the shooting as an execution.

www.nytimes.com

Does anybody else remember this? I don’t know who they’re recruiting, how they’re training them or testing their suitability for the role but something is just messed up. And whenever an incident like this happens, the cover up or lack of punishment (even when caught on camera!) is just absolutely shameful.

There’s an issue with racism, no doubt about it. But there’s a general issue with their policing and law enforcement for sure. Whether it’s the gun laws doing this I don’t know but it’s terrifying. They seem to be looking for a reason to use excessive force.

 

[DanEFC92]

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

From an outsiders POV I have spent a fair bit of time in St Louis.

One day a friend of mine took me on a trip to the top of the gateway arch. At the top you get a great view of the city and surrounding terrain, to my left I could see the City Center, very modern, high tech (lots of shiny buildings) even the drive into St Louis vis Town and Country showed a high level of wealth and affluence.
What struck me though, standing at the top of the tower was the complete desolation on the other bank of the Mississippi River, it was like it had been carpet bombed.

My friend said that it was a bad neighbourhood, mainly blacks and Hispanics and there was always a lot of trouble there.

I replied that if I had to live in that environment then I deffo would be kicking off.

There is a huge divide in the US between the haves and the have nots and it’s mainly blacks who make up the majority of the have nots. American society IMO is broken, fix that and you will no longer have incidents of white cops killing blacks, riots looting and other bad stuff.

There is NO doubt that what's happening right now is a result of many things, including not only racism through the years but also blatant income inequality, for which there are institutional, long-standing, reasons. Add to that the blatant white nationalism (look no further than Trump's most recent tweet that MAGA....they love the black people, clearly an indication that MAGA is white and "the blacks" aren't part of it) and Trump and GOP's rhetoric over the last 3 years and this was bound to happen.

As others have stated, this isn't a problem that has a magic bullet.

But the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

And we, as a country, have never done that. And until that happens, ain't nothing gonna change

 

[Debunkology]

I don't like what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to barge into this thread in a conical white hood and start swinging

Yeah, I suppose using critical thinking and logic must mean I'm racist?

Or am I just bringing up issues that makes the snowflakes uncomfortable?

I know I'm in a left leaning clique in this particular forum, and the left abandoned critical thinking and logic many moons ago. Which is why they are unelectable in UK and USA and so well done to themselves for that.

So we can all virtue signal and ignore the real issues, but then nothing gets done.

Let's loot shall we. That makes everything better.

 

[tsubaki]

Yeah, I suppose using critical thinking and logic must mean I'm racist?

Or am I just bringing up issues that makes the snowflakes uncomfortable?

I know I'm in a left leaning clique in this particular forum, and the left abandoned critical thinking and logic many moons ago. Which is why they are unelectable in UK and USA and so well done to themselves for that.

So we can all virtue signal and ignore the real issues, but then nothing gets done.

Let's loot shall we. That makes everything better.

This post was sponsored by Fox News, and the number 2.

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

Don’t think it can be argued that black Americans are subject to worse behaviour from police than the white population. That’s not the point I’m going to make. This whole incident reminds me of this story:

From 2017: Video Shows Daniel Shaver Pleading for His Life Before Being Shot by Officer (Published 2017)

The video, released after an Arizona jury acquitted the officer of murder, renewed calls for reforms in law enforcement. Activists described the shooting as an execution.

www.nytimes.com

Does anybody else remember this? I don’t know who they’re recruiting, how they’re training them or testing their suitability for the role but something is just messed up. And whenever an incident like this happens, the cover up or lack of punishment (even when caught on camera!) is just absolutely shameful.

There’s an issue with racism, no doubt about it. But there’s a general issue with their policing and law enforcement for sure. Whether it’s the gun laws doing this I don’t know but it’s terrifying. They seem to be looking for a reason to use excessive force.

Yes, police are a problem, in general, b/c there will always be bad people that want the badge and gun to have control and power. So yes, white cops can be awful to white people too.

So that's one population of cops. and out of that subset, when you add conscious and unconscious racism, it's a recipe for diaster

 

[Prevenger17]

Yeah, I suppose using critical thinking and logic must mean I'm racist?

Or am I just bringing up issues that makes the snowflakes uncomfortable?

I know I'm in a left leaning clique in this particular forum, and the left abandoned critical thinking and logic many moons ago. Which is why they are unelectable in UK and USA and so well done to themselves for that.

So we can all virtue signal and ignore the real issues, but then nothing gets done.

Let's loot shall we. That makes everything better.

Out of interest, what conclusions are you drawing from the statistics you're posting? Are you saying that black people in the US are inherently more violent than white people?

 

[dandydan]

You haven't posted on stormfront for a couple of years eh?

Nah, too leftie for my refined tastes.

 

[Wizard]

Don’t think it can be argued that black Americans are subject to worse behaviour from police than the white population. That’s not the point I’m going to make. This whole incident reminds me of this story:

From 2017: Video Shows Daniel Shaver Pleading for His Life Before Being Shot by Officer (Published 2017)

The video, released after an Arizona jury acquitted the officer of murder, renewed calls for reforms in law enforcement. Activists described the shooting as an execution.

www.nytimes.com

Does anybody else remember this? I don’t know who they’re recruiting, how they’re training them or testing their suitability for the role but something is just messed up. And whenever an incident like this happens, the cover up or lack of punishment (even when caught on camera!) is just absolutely shameful.

There’s an issue with racism, no doubt about it. But there’s a general issue with their policing and law enforcement for sure. Whether it’s the gun laws doing this I don’t know but it’s terrifying. They seem to be looking for a reason to use excessive force.

Remember this well and it is absolutely shocking. One thing I would say about it is that had he been black, at 3.40 in the video when he put his hands behind his back having got on his knees, he would have almost certainly been killed at that point. Ended up in the same result but I can't imagine a black man gets the "second chance" he did.

 

[Debunkology]

Out of interest, what conclusions are you drawing from the statistics you're posting? Are you saying that black people in the US are inherently more violent than white people?

I'm simply showing a correlation.

Personally, I do not think black people are "inherently" more violent than white people.

The biggest problem with black America is the culture. Cultures can change.

For example, East Asians in the USA are the most succesful demographic group in the United States, and this is built on a strong emphasis on education and a family unit, and that is all to do with culture.

 

[dandydan]

Ok.

So, Black people are 2.5x more likely to be killed by police than white people in USA.

They are also far more likely to rob, steal, and victimize others. Far greater than 2.5x. (try 6x and 7x etc)

This is the point that everybody misses.

If you have a group that puts their hands in the fire more often, then that group is going to get burnt more often. Who woulda thought hey?

Sure. There are other issues at play. But this doesn't mean every cop in the USA is racist. American cops are brutal full stop.


Black people are also 7x more likely to murder someone in USA.

Blacks are more likely to victimize whites than whites are to victimize blacks.

https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/3226952/Sampson_RacialEthnicDisparities.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y

Blacks are 6x more likely to be robbed and murdered than whites. Because they live in black areas.



Why do people continually ignore the elephant in the room?


There's probably been 4 black people shot today in Chicago alone, by other black men. No one cares about that. BLM don't.

Uh oh! He quoted the forbidden texts.

 

[Encoder]

Out of interest, what conclusions are you drawing from the statistics you're posting? Are you saying that black people in the US are inherently more violent than white people?

Snowflake tick

Unelectable tick

Virtue signalling tick

Just waiting for 'SJW' before I scream bingo