Current Affairs George Floyd and Minneapolis Unrest

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Nope. I say that as a peaceful person. Violent racism and fascism is ramping up. It must be met with force, particularly if governments are happy to not stop the fascism and turn a blind eye to racism.

Which is why we have Brexit.

Let the idiots spout their rhetoric and destroy it with facts - dont shout them down, make them martyrs for "freedom of speech" and become popular with the blue collar masses which is whats happened in the UK ever since Brown called that arl woman a bigot instead of educating her the facts on immigration and talking through her concerns on the subject.

All about education.
 
Admittedly, violence may highlight the issue and bring the issues to the forefront of the public's consciousness, but in reality violence is not the long-term answer.

It will also bring about issues that may only lead to exacerbating the situation further, hence it's a balancing act in the short, medium and long term.

That's not dismissing grievances or the situation, but an observation. In reality, I've thought about this much and I feel that racism will never truly be removed.

This particular issue is due to white privilege and the treatment of blacks in America, but it's the tip of the iceberg that is discrimination across the globe.

That's not me minimising the issue or trying to hide from it, but my frank impression of the issue of bigotry as a whole: race, colour, creed, nations, cities etc.

Humans, regretfully, tend to fall into groups (pack mentality) based on their similarities and their differences with a magnetism for similar interests or whatever.

Due to this, there'll always be a conscious or subconscious view of we're different; where for most people that's as far it goes (accepting differences)...

...for some it'll sadly move onto a form of bigotry. What the heck should pigment in our skin designed to protect us from the sun have to do with anything?

Why should religion or nationality? But it does. K'in ell, people talk about gingers and blondes etc., and some people even use that to be derogatory.

It's no different from the situation of football fans: we're all fellow blues (our similarity) and we probably have a tendency to sway away from Liverpool fans.

You only need to look at the Newcastle thread, which I myself have been a member of. All fun? In reality, they're nothing more than another set of football fans.

We talk down about them and make fun of them, but some others have this vile hatred for them that seethes in their veins. We have our fans who chant hatred.

How is that not as bad racism, sexism or xenophobia? This whole situation has really made me think about how deeply engrained this is within society.

People will talk about the historic part of racism (white privilege), how widespread or embedded it is in terms of impact, but it's still from the same root cause...

... us vs. them; similarities vs. differences. What I'm saying is that is that I simply can't see this being a quick fix if it's ever fixed at all - I sincerely hope it is.

Therefore, in reality we need to try and educate and subdue this innate, internal things that we do on a daily basis, but clearly to different extents.

We're guilty of it and nobody should say otherwise, but so are other people. Everyone is! That's not trying to shift the blame or absolve responsibility.

However, I just can't help but think it's currently engrained in humanity and only education, real education and the growth of knowledge, will fix our bigotry.

Education about similarities and accepting differences. Accepting that racism, sexism or whatever else is a lack of understanding and accepting of cultures.

I look at the rioting, racism and hatred in the USA and I see my own faults, and I personally despise racism. "Only love can conquer hate," as Marvin said.

really good post.....
 
I can't for the life of me imagine why black lives matter "protests" get nevative opinions.


Even a charitable reading suggests this is a racist post. In one swoop, Dandydan has managed to label all black people as the same, thereby delegitimizing their own individual identity (this is a common racist tactic: e.g., "all black people act the same; they are all "activists"; they are all thugs etc.) and then inverts this labeling by suggesting that some criminal black men are part of the very justice-oriented movement that seeks to rectify systematic racism. I see this all the time on the neo-nazi, white supremacist website stormfront.org; I believe it originated as a meme on the virulently racist Daily Stormer (links to wikipedia). Or you can click on this google image search link here (links to google image search page using "racist meme" "black lives matter" as search terms).
 
Which is a good thing. Not every American is racist and not every white person who is talking about this is jumping on a band wagon. Absolutely there are people there who have fought for black rights and did support them to begin with.

I just see taking the knee as an insult when the purpose of it to begin with was on how America was failing black people. So it was meant to be disrespectful to the flag.

For what it's worth I thought that was a brilliant idea that he did that.
I agree with you. I don't like it and find it to be a very empty gesture when the police do it and then just do back to throwing tear gas around. I simply wanted to point out that the people who criticized Kaepernick and the people actually protesting now more than likely fall into different groups. I don't know a single person who has changed their mind on it.

Now as I said yesterday if the police turn this into a real effort to change, and there's places where I feel like the start of that was actually happening, then it isn't as empty. But kneeling isn't where I see that. It's places like Flint where the cops are trying to and hopefully are committed to trying to repair the relationship and actually learn from all of this. But it has to last.
 
Good post Phil - America has alot of deep rooted problems but I would argue its not only African Americans that are affected by this - plenty of Hispanics, poor white Americans etc who are screwed by the establishment therefore for me it has to be education, large scale protests & bringing these people together.

For the police - forgetting the race issue for a moment and looking at policing in general - no excuses for alot of what goes on however the american people can not complain about them being trigger happy in certain situations when any person/suspect they approach could pull out a gun and blast them.

Compared to the police in the UK they can be more laidback as chances are a routine pulling a car over the officer will likely be less worried about the driver being armed and dangerous. Not saying thats the whole reason behind cops being forceful over there but it must always be on their mind when going to domestic situations etc.
Eh, so police can be excused for being trigger happy as they fear getting shot and yet the public can’t have the same fears about a cop?

All of us have flight/flight responses and police body language and confrontational words can trigger that in those citizens they talk to just as easily as the reverse is true.

It is a whole vicious cycle but you seem to be focusing on only one aspect of it.

I agree that the fear of being shot is a big factor (one of many reasons I’d prefer gun control) but other countries with access to firearms like Canada don’t have anywhere near the same police issues.
 
People are complaining that those rioting should be demonstrating peacefully, however when black Americans were protesting peacefully by taking the knee, they were roundly criticised by many, including the president for doing just that.

The rioters aren't "demonstrating", they are opportunist theives, Simple as that.

Anyone who has been to the U.S.A knows that anyone with a badge and any hint of authority in that country, go on an ego trip to outer-space. From the fat security guard who failed cop school, to airport security, to police sergeants.

The guy killed by a cop is the victim of bad police. Not racism.

76% of people killed by cops in the United States are none-black and every ethnic group in the USA are victims of police brutality.

Why didn't the 17 year old unarmed white kid who flashed down a cop, then proceeded to get murdered by said cop. Get shown all over American media?
Why did this particular guy who commited a crime and resisted arrest and then proceeded to get basically suffocated which triggered cardiac arrest by a cop get shown all over American media?

One fits in a narrative, while the other one does not.

There is a huge problem in America of cops killing people full stop.
 
They do not come even remotely close to fitting the criteria for being a terrorist group.

Who cares?

They illegally engage in violence and destruction on an ideological basis. They're terrorists. Whether they can be officially classified as such means very little to me.

With that in mind I'll again pose the inquiry:

I don't understand the hyper-partisan/ideological refusal to call domestic terrorists out by name. Especially from people who claim to care about POC - who ANTIFA is actively hurting.
 
The rioters aren't "demonstrating", they are opportunist theives, Simple as that.

Anyone who has been to the U.S.A knows that anyone with a badge and any hint of authority in that country, go on an ego trip to outer-space. From the fat security guard who failed cop school, to airport security, to police sergeants.

The guy killed by a cop is the victim of bad police. Not racism.

76% of people killed by cops in the United States are none-black and every ethnic group in the USA are victims of police brutality.

Why didn't the 17 year old unarmed white kid who flashed down a cop, then proceeded to get murdered by said cop. Get shown all over American media?
Why did this particular guy who commited a crime and resisted arrest and then proceeded to get basically suffocated which triggered cardiac arrest by a cop get shown all over American media?

One fits in a narrative, while the other one does not.

There is a huge problem in America of cops killing people full stop.

isn’t police violence one of the biggest killers of young black men in America ? Like if not top 5 then top 6 or 7 . If it is then that has to indicate that maybe race plays a part in the issues .
 
Eh, so police can be excused for being trigger happy as they fear getting shot and yet the public can’t have the same fears about a cop?

All of us have flight/flight responses and police body language and confrontational words can trigger that in those citizens they talk to just as easily as the reverse is true.

It is a whole vicious cycle but you seem to be focusing on only one aspect of it.

I agree that the fear of being shot is a big factor (one of many reasons I’d prefer gun control) but other countries with access to firearms like Canada don’t have anywhere near the same police issues.

My guess is that it's a combination of much higher crime than is seen in Canada, and I suspect (but don't know) that Canada probably has higher standards for police officers. I think everyone can agree that the situation here is problematic because it's cyclical. Who wants to be a cop in the US right now? Which leads us to rehiring and retaining bad cops, which leads to police brutality, which leads to riots and abuse of all cops, which leads to a lack of good cops.
 
My guess is that it's a combination of much higher crime than is seen in Canada, and I suspect (but don't know) that Canada probably has higher standards for police officers. I think everyone can agree that the situation here is problematic because it's cyclical. Who wants to be a cop in the US right now? Which leads us to rehiring and retaining bad cops, which leads to police brutality, which leads to riots and abuse of all cops, which leads to a lack of good cops.
Yep and on the positive side there are some places that seem to be addressing that.

Hiring practices, training, incentive structures and mental health resources all need to be considered. The latter point might help address another issue you raised in an earlier post - cops tend to have awful domestic violence records and it seems reasonable that the job itself creates some of that anger that is then expressed in harmful ways either in their own family or in the community,
 
isn’t police violence one of the biggest killers of young black men in America ? Like if not top 5 then top 6 or 7 . If it is then that has to indicate that maybe race plays a part in the issues .

Black men make up 50% of all violent crimes, serious crimes, and murders in the United States. They are over-represeted in crime, and when this is taken into account they are actually under-represented in victims of homicide by police.

You are more likely to be shot by American police officer if you are none-black.

The biggest killers of young black men in America are other young black men. Black men make up 6% of the population, responsible for half the murders, and 90% of their victims are other black men. Yet when it comes to BLM, they are completely silent over this.
 
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