Current Affairs George Floyd and Minneapolis Unrest

[Huyton Layne]

Everyone’s default setting should be anti-fascism.

You're now on the US terrorist list. Welcome to 2020.

 

[Kenshin]

There's a section of white America that was ok with Kaepernick's protest, and that is the section that is doing stuff now. The section that went crazy about patriotism is still against everything happening now.

Which is a good thing. Not every American is racist and not every white person who is talking about this is jumping on a band wagon. Absolutely there are people there who have fought for black rights and did support them to begin with.

I just see taking the knee as an insult when the purpose of it to begin with was on how America was failing black people. So it was meant to be disrespectful to the flag.

For what it's worth I thought that was a brilliant idea that he did that.

 

[Harryflashman]

You would have been pro appeasement with Chamberlain then?

Of course violence is some times the answer.

Otherwise that Hitler chap would have been around for a while longer.

said the same earlier in the thread. It’s a lovely saying and an even better sentiment , it’s absolutely not true though .

 

[Pettifogger]

Some times violence is the only way.

While I obviously oppose the violence going on right now, I don't disagree with the sentiment. No doubt there are black Americans who believe that their backs are up against the wall to a degree this is necessary. I don't think that's objectively true, but I acknowledge it's a genuinely-held belief for some.

But it also raises the question of what the people to whom harm is being done should do? If you engage in violence and destruction, the people you're attempting to harm might validly determine violence their only option as well.

 

[PhilM]

Some times violence is the only way.

Admittedly, violence may highlight the issue and bring the issues to the forefront of the public's consciousness, but in reality violence is not the long-term answer.

It will also bring about issues that may only lead to exacerbating the situation further, hence it's a balancing act in the short, medium and long term.

That's not dismissing grievances or the situation, but an observation. In reality, I've thought about this much and I feel that racism will never truly be removed.

This particular issue is due to white privilege and the treatment of blacks in America, but it's the tip of the iceberg that is discrimination across the globe.

That's not me minimising the issue or trying to hide from it, but my frank impression of the issue of bigotry as a whole: race, colour, creed, nations, cities etc.

Humans, regretfully, tend to fall into groups (pack mentality) based on their similarities and their differences with a magnetism for similar interests or whatever.

Due to this, there'll always be a conscious or subconscious view of we're different; where for most people that's as far it goes (accepting differences)...

...for some it'll sadly move onto a form of bigotry. What the heck should pigment in our skin designed to protect us from the sun have to do with anything?

Why should religion or nationality? But it does. K'in ell, people talk about gingers and blondes etc., and some people even use that to be derogatory.

It's no different from the situation of football fans: we're all fellow blues (our similarity) and we probably have a tendency to sway away from Liverpool fans.

You only need to look at the Newcastle thread, which I myself have been a member of. All fun? In reality, they're nothing more than another set of football fans.

We talk down about them and make fun of them, but some others have this vile hatred for them that seethes in their veins. We have our fans who chant hatred.

How is that not as bad racism, sexism or xenophobia? This whole situation has really made me think about how deeply engrained this is within society.

People will talk about the historic part of racism (white privilege), how widespread or embedded it is in terms of impact, but it's still from the same root cause...

... us vs. them; similarities vs. differences. What I'm saying is that is that I simply can't see this being a quick fix if it's ever fixed at all - I sincerely hope it is.

Therefore, in reality we need to try and educate and subdue this innate, internal things that we do on a daily basis, but clearly to different extents.

We're guilty of it and nobody should say otherwise, but so are other people. Everyone is! That's not trying to shift the blame or absolve responsibility.

However, I just can't help but think it's currently engrained in humanity and only education, real education and the growth of knowledge, will fix our bigotry.

Education about similarities and accepting differences. Accepting that racism, sexism or whatever else is a lack of understanding and accepting of cultures.

I look at the rioting, racism and hatred in the USA and I see my own faults, and I personally despise racism. "Only love can conquer hate," as Marvin said.

 

[Pettifogger]

Theres cases to be made that your 3 examples all fall under the same umbrella. If a cop sees another doing something heinous but doesn't stop them, that makes them just as bad. If a priest knows about another priest doing something heinous but does nothing about it, that makes them just as bad. If a muslim knows about an impending terrorist act by another muslim and does nothing about it, that makes them just as bad.

Going back on what this really is about is point 1. Cops do not think of themselves as the protectorate of the population here in the States. They think everyone should be subservient to them. Like @LinekersLegs said, the motto of the police here is "to protect and serve". The followup to that motto is "to protect and serve the general population". They are given extraordinary freedoms like the use of force and they have abused it time and time again.

I agree police overreach is a major problem. I heard about the Breanna Taylor killing on pro-gun and conservative websites well before they became the focus of BLM. In other words, there is more bipartisan consensus on some of these things than some may believe.

But as for cops, I'm sure some really do want to protect and serve. But I don't think it's helpful to skip over the part where cops see needless killings, kids addicted to drugs, and cops being injured or killed by violent people, etc. I don't think you can separate police abuse from the desensitization that comes with seeing violence, with seeing destruction, with seeing assaults and rapes and all the other things that major city cops deal with. Some will assume that's an excuse - it's not. It's a frank acknowledgment of human nature.

It's the same as sending 20 year olds to war zones and expecting none of them to go off the deep end. Police brutality is real, full stop. But if we want it to stop, we need to a) avoid needless police interactions and b) limit the necessary police interactions (and hire and train better, etc.). Which will necessarily involve a look at the violence and crime that plagues neighborhoods where abuse arises.

 

[Kenshin]

There's a section of white America that was ok with Kaepernick's protest, and that is the section that is doing stuff now. The section that went crazy about patriotism is still against everything happening now.

Which is a good thing. Not every American is racist and not every white person who is talking about this is jumping on a band wagon. Absolutely there are people there who have fought for black rights and did support them to begin with.

I just see taking the knee as an insult when the purpose of it to begin with was on how America was failing black people. So it was meant to be disrespectful to the flag.

For what it's worth I thought that was a brilliant idea that he did that.

More to the point though. None of it is about the people who have supported them, it's about those who haven't. The ones who ignore their voice , twist everything against them or simply turn a blind eye.

Who gives a damn if the police kneel? It's the same police that treat them differently. A white man can shoot up a school and be treated with dignity , a black man on a minor offense is murdered. That's the difference here.

 

[Pettifogger]

You're now on the US terrorist list. Welcome to 2020.

Antifa isn't anti-fascist and anyone who legitimately believes otherwise is being willfully obtuse. There are about 1000 videos from the last 3 days where these disaffected white kids are shown for what they are - troublemaking losers with absolutely nothing else going for them.

 

[Harryflashman]

Admittedly, violence may highlight the issue and bring the issues to the forefront of the public's consciousness, but in reality violence is not the long-term answer.

It will also bring about issues that may only lead to exacerbating the situation further, hence it's a balancing act in the short, medium and long term.

That's not dismissing grievances or the situation, but an observation. In reality, I've thought about this much and I feel that racism will never truly be removed.

This particular issue is due to white privilege and the treatment of blacks in America, but it's the tip of the iceberg that is discrimination across the globe.

That's not me minimising the issue or trying to hide from it, but my frank impression of the issue of bigotry as a whole: race, colour, creed, nations, cities etc.

Humans, regretfully, tend to fall into groups (pack mentality) based on their similarities and their differences with a magnetism for similar interests or whatever.

Due to this, there'll always be a conscious or subconscious view of we're different; where for most people that's as far it goes (accepting differences)...

...for some it'll sadly move onto a form of bigotry. What the heck should pigment in our skin designed to protect us from the sun have to do with anything?

Why should religion or nationality? But it does. K'in ell, people talk about gingers and blondes etc., and some people even use that to be derogatory.

It's no different from the situation of football fans: we're all fellow blues (our similarity) and we probably have a tendency to sway away from Liverpool fans.

You only need to look at the Newcastle thread, which I myself have been a member of. All fun? In reality, they're nothing more than another set of football fans.

We talk down about them and make fun of them, but some others have this vile hatred for them that seethes in their veins. We have our fans who chant hatred.

How is that not as bad racism, sexism or xenophobia? This whole situation has really made me think about how deeply engrained this is within society.

People will talk about the historic part of racism (white privilege), how widespread or embedded it is in terms of impact, but it's still from the same root cause...

... us vs. them; similarities vs. differences. What I'm saying is that is that I simply can't see this being a quick fix if it's ever fixed at all - I sincerely hope it is.

Therefore, in reality we need to try and educate and subdue this innate, internal things that we do on a daily basis, but clearly to different extents.

We're guilty of it and nobody should say otherwise, but so are other people. Everyone is! That's not trying to shift the blame or absolve responsibility.

However, I just can't help but think it's currently engrained in humanity and only education, real education and the growth of knowledge, will fix our bigotry.

Education about similarities and accepting differences. Accepting that racism, sexism or whatever else is a lack of understanding and accepting of cultures.

I look at the rioting, racism and hatred in the USA and I see my own faults, and I personally despise racism.

you’ll accept though sometimes in life there is simply no choice but to resort to violence . Whether your defending your home or your homeland , if your a police officer exercising his powers or a revolutionary fighting against tyranny. Sometimes there is simply no choice but to fight , i accept choosing that moment isn’t easy but to say violence isn’t ever the answer feels both wrong and naive to me .

 

[PhilM]

you’ll accept though sometimes in life there is simply no choice but to resort to violence . Whether your defending your home or your homeland , if your a police officer exercising his powers or a revolutionary fighting against tyranny. Sometimes there is simply no choice but to fight , i accept choosing that moment isn’t easy but to say violence isn’t ever the answer feels both wrong and naive to me .

Oh no I totally agree with that as I suspect you'll appreciate, but as I said it's a balancing act and I think we need to be cautious when we use it.

It's a short-term but often necessary conduit, however it is a short-term tool; in the long term, education is the only way and that's the same in any manifestation.

 

[DrEFC]

Marxists are dumb, but not dumb enough to self incriminate.

 

[Grinch]

this what I like to see.Majority of the places in the news are like this. Good for this cop

 

[DrEFC]

Who are the ones who do counter demos against the likes of the EDL and UKIP/Farage?

As that group certainly do have troublemakers amongst their group.

Doesnt matter what message you have if its done in a violent/aggressive manner then you're just as bad as those who you are speaking out against imo.

Nope. I say that as a peaceful person. Violent racism and fascism is ramping up. It must be met with force, particularly if governments are happy to not stop the fascism and turn a blind eye to racism.

 

[DrEFC]

Antifa isn't anti-fascist and anyone who legitimately believes otherwise is being willfully obtuse. There are about 1000 videos from the last 3 days where these disaffected white kids are shown for what they are - troublemaking losers with absolutely nothing else going for them.

Nope.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Admittedly, violence may highlight the issue and bring the issues to the forefront of the public's consciousness, but in reality violence is not the long-term answer.

It will also bring about issues that may only lead to exacerbating the situation further, hence it's a balancing act in the short, medium and long term.

That's not dismissing grievances or the situation, but an observation. In reality, I've thought about this much and I feel that racism will never truly be removed.

This particular issue is due to white privilege and the treatment of blacks in America, but it's the tip of the iceberg that is discrimination across the globe.

That's not me minimising the issue or trying to hide from it, but my frank impression of the issue of bigotry as a whole: race, colour, creed, nations, cities etc.

Humans, regretfully, tend to fall into groups (pack mentality) based on their similarities and their differences with a magnetism for similar interests or whatever.

Due to this, there'll always be a conscious or subconscious view of we're different; where for most people that's as far it goes (accepting differences)...

...for some it'll sadly move onto a form of bigotry. What the heck should pigment in our skin designed to protect us from the sun have to do with anything?

Why should religion or nationality? But it does. K'in ell, people talk about gingers and blondes etc., and some people even use that to be derogatory.

It's no different from the situation of football fans: we're all fellow blues (our similarity) and we probably have a tendency to sway away from Liverpool fans.

You only need to look at the Newcastle thread, which I myself have been a member of. All fun? In reality, they're nothing more than another set of football fans.

We talk down about them and make fun of them, but some others have this vile hatred for them that seethes in their veins. We have our fans who chant hatred.

How is that not as bad racism, sexism or xenophobia? This whole situation has really made me think about how deeply engrained this is within society.

People will talk about the historic part of racism (white privilege), how widespread or embedded it is in terms of impact, but it's still from the same root cause...

... us vs. them; similarities vs. differences. What I'm saying is that is that I simply can't see this being a quick fix if it's ever fixed at all - I sincerely hope it is.

Therefore, in reality we need to try and educate and subdue this innate, internal things that we do on a daily basis, but clearly to different extents.

We're guilty of it and nobody should say otherwise, but so are other people. Everyone is! That's not trying to shift the blame or absolve responsibility.

However, I just can't help but think it's currently engrained in humanity and only education, real education and the growth of knowledge, will fix our bigotry.

Education about similarities and accepting differences. Accepting that racism, sexism or whatever else is a lack of understanding and accepting of cultures.

I look at the rioting, racism and hatred in the USA and I see my own faults, and I personally despise racism. "Only love can conquer hate," as Marvin said.

Good post Phil - America has alot of deep rooted problems but I would argue its not only African Americans that are affected by this - plenty of Hispanics, poor white Americans etc who are screwed by the establishment therefore for me it has to be education, large scale protests & bringing these people together.

For the police - forgetting the race issue for a moment and looking at policing in general - no excuses for alot of what goes on however the american people who back such lax gun control legislation can not complain about them being trigger happy in certain situations when any person/suspect they approach could pull out a gun and blast them.

Compared to the police in the UK they can be more laidback as chances are a routine pulling a car over the officer will likely be less worried about the driver being armed and dangerous. Not saying thats the whole reason behind cops being forceful over there but it must always be on their mind when going to domestic situations etc.