Current Affairs George Floyd and Minneapolis Unrest

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I listened to a really good podcast about it here

It is a bit uncharted waters in recent history tbh as when the military have gone in as it has been at the governors request rather than to override them.

Going back to civil rights era ...George Wallace governor of Alabama was not removed from office when JFK sent in troops
 
She donated 2000 pounds, the Turkish government went about sending 10,000 and she intervened and asked them only to send 1000 so they wouldn't be giving more than her, the Turkish agreed but secretly sent 5 ships of aid which the British found out about and attempted to blockade but failed and the aid arrived in Ireland.
Stopping financial aid so it wouldn't show you up is a tyrant move.. there's a reason she's known as the famine queen.

This isn't about power at all, she can donate to what she wants to as can anyone and speak to and try and persuade people to take her view into account but it's not power, it's was her government's decision ONLY which is always the only one that really matters, the government may have agreed with her wishes on Turkey but she would have no real power over any laws and very little influence if her government took the opposite view.

Britain's part in the famine relief is a deeply shameful one but the power was wielded by the government and the government could well have been more concerned about any potential embarrassment to her rather than any humanitarian or normal human reaction. Nevertheless it would be keeping onside with the British government that would have influenced the Turks.

She was a constitutional monarch not an absolute one.
 
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This isn't about power at all, she can donate to what she wants to as can anyone and speak to and try and persuade people to take her view into account but it's not power, it's was her government's decision ONLY which is always the only one that really matters, the government may have agreed with her wishes on Turkey but she would have no real power over any laws.
Rubbish, she was the monarch of the most powerful empire in the world, if she asked another country not to give aid, they wouldn't, who'd want the queen of that empire as an enemy. She may have had little power but she had major influence, which she used.
 
Rubbish, she was the monarch of the most powerful empire in the world, if she asked another country not to give aid, they wouldn't, who'd want the queen of that empire as an enemy. She may have had little power but she had major influence, which she used.

It isn't rubbish at all, if her government fundamentally disagreed with her it would be that which counted. She possibly gave such a meagre amount and her government knowing the amount influenced Turkey not to embarrass the young Queen, not her.

She was a constitutional monarch and at the time a very young inexperienced one, she had no effective say as no constitutional monarch does, although often as sympathetic government who would act as they wished

She was Empress of India and head of the empire by virtue of being Queen and it being a possession of the crown, her Government ruled it and appointed the Governor of India etc.

Her power wasn't real and her government could easily take a different view
 
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She was made Empress of India many years after the Great Famine (1876). Of course she had some influence over political matters but not a huge amount. Equally, of course, the British response to the famine was very poor: Trevelyan was the tip of an iceberg of prejudice which viewed the Irish as a superstitious, feckless people who had it (the famine) coming. Nonetheless, it's also the case that there were national and local collections on the mainland for relief.

Could more have been done at government level? Certainly. Did Victoria sit in Windsor rubbing her hands in glee at the plight of the Irish, instructing the government in its approach? Nonsense.
 
She was made Empress of India many years after the Great Famine (1876). Of course she had some influence over political matters but not a huge amount. Equally, of course, the British response to the famine was very poor: Trevelyan was the tip of an iceberg of prejudice which viewed the Irish as a superstitious, feckless people who had it (the famine) coming. Nonetheless, it's also the case that there were national and local collections on the mainland for relief.

Could more have been done at government level? Certainly. Did Victoria sit in Windsor rubbing her hands in glee at the plight of the Irish, instructing the government in its approach? Nonsense.

Yes I'd largely agree with all of this.

There are crucial dates which may help give some understanding.

Victoria was born in 1819, came to the throne before she was even 20 in 1837, the Irish famine started in 1845, she would only be a relatively young Queen in her twenties still unsure of herself and very reliant on her prime minister's for advice on how she should act.

The electorate in Britain was only a relatively small percentage of the male population. The reform bill of 1834? had widened the franchise slightly and got rid of the tiny so called 'rotten' boroughs who could return MP's with a miniscule electorate while whole cities went unrepresented. So abolishing tiny districts, gave representation to cities, gave the vote to small landowners, tenant farmers, and shopkeepers and to householders who paid a yearly rental of £10 or more and some lodgers.

This matters because the governments of the day largely only had to look after the interests of the landed classes, and with MP's outside the cabinet, unpaid, the parties themselves were made up of the very rich who could afford to live without a salary and on their other income including inherited wealth, land and rents from tenant farmers.

Even in good times the poor at home were not given any consideration, living in absolute poverty and earning a pittance for hard work, it was a time where the wealth of the nation and its influence abroad through empire were largely paramount.

Given then that the poor in England were treated so badly, the possessions throughout the world were also only there for the wealth and strategic value they could provide for Britain often in extending it's influence and territory even further, they were never interested in the actual indiginous populations.

It's against this background that the government of the day would have no real interest in the Irish peasants helpless plight at the best of times, they were only interested in suppression and taking what they could.

Governments being made up of the wealthy and landed, that's Liberals as well as Tories would protect their own classes interests and not particularly the the majority of the populatiin (the Liberals ruled for most of her reign, although Lord Palmerston, Lord Melbourne (a Whig, predecessor of the Liberal party) and later notably Peel and Disraeli weren't.) Peel was a conservative who broke away from the party over protectionism (he was against it) forming his own Peelite party.

The prime minister (Robert Peel) may well have advised Victoria, she being so new and unsure, on any size of contribution and kept it very meagre, suppression of the poor helpless and destitute being very common at that period. The poor laws and workhouse were features of that century's laws, this isn't an environment we recognise today so easily.

Finally, the queen although having only a constitutional power could talk to her prime minister, and her government - far closer to the aristocracy than we have today, would more than likely take her views in board as they may very well coincide with their own.

Victoria had no actual power and was only s constitutional monarch but often had sympathetic prime ministers who would very much be inclined to take her views into account. At the time the famine started she was 25 or 26 and almost certainly dependant on her government for any amount, or reduction of that amount, given.
 
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Victoria had no actual power

... not even over the appointment of her Ladies in Waiting as witness the ructions in the early part of her reign.

I don't, by the way, want to seem to be an apologist for British rule in Ireland. It was 800 years of crass, cold, duplicitous and greed driven nastiness in my view.
 
... not even over the appointment of her Ladies in Waiting as witness the ructions in the early part of her reign.

I don't, by the way, want to seem to be an apologist for British rule in Ireland. It was 800 years of crass, cold, duplicitous and greed driven nastiness in my view.

I meant power in law, as an absolute monarch not appointments in her own household, these aren't anything to do with it.

Charles II, or rather I suppose you could include the brief reign of his brother James II, was the last real absolute monarch in England after Cromwell's Republic in the 1660's, his brother James II took over but was overthrown by a parliament unhappy with his open Catholicism and the threat to our Protestant country's religion, the whole constitution could hardly be based on a Catholic head of the established church - religion being very, very important then. Parliament invited William over from Holland who deposed James in the glorious revolution.

William ruled jointly with Mary but parliament who had invited him over reasserted their right to rule many aspects and laws with William in effect having his power limited.

Following Queen Anne the four Georgian kings, George 1st being elector of Hanover in Germany, suceeded to the throne and parliament gradually took over more and more laws. William (directly before Victoria), only had power in name only, so theoretical constitutional power such as our Queen has today.

Victoria was only a constitutional monarch, parliament's power was absolute compared to the 1660's after Cromwell and the return of Charles II.
 
I lived on the East Side of Seattle for 3 years and plan to move back

I've lived in the southeast for 20 years, I've lived in SoCal for a year. I've lived in the Northeast for a decade.

Seattle is fantastic. I miss it nearly daily. It is very much not an American city though, it's much more politically and culturally in line with Canada or Europe. And that makes it very different than most other cities in the US.

Jay Inslee is a great governor for the majority of the people in the state, I happily voted for him and would gladly do so again. I was slightly hopeful when he ran in the Democratic primaries, beyond the fact it was obviously just to move the discussion on climate change.

Washington has about 7 million people in total, and I think 4.5 of those live in Seattle. The rural areas are also some of the prettiest in the nation...but so is Seattle itself, especially when you get a view of Rainier from the sound with the cityscape in view.
Visited Seattle in 2005 So imagine a fair bit has changed. The downtown was nicer than a lot of other American cities, Still a huge homeless problem though. Is that area where that mad troll is under the bridge the east side? Fremont maybe? Nice round there
 
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