General strike/protest

[magicjuan]

I think they should make their case to their patients, they should spend time and effort putting across a picture that shows they are doing it for someone other than themselves. They should honour their contracts yet restrict themselves from the 'management' meetings etc. In short they should be as obnoxious as they can be without once affecting a patient. Let the public do the demonstrating for them while they maintain the moral high ground. Do NOT fall into the trap of being portrayed as a group who are concerned about their own contracts.......

As ideal as that would be the media are in the hands of the government and it would be a struggle to get a sympathetic portrayal across.

As they are they are making the public well aware by drawing as much attention to it as they can.

The public are a lot more savvy and vociferous on this, being on the back of a continuous attack from Blair onwards, in particular regard to major changes. It has been unrelenting since the mid 90s.

 

[peteblue]

As ideal as that would be the media are in the hands of the government and it would be a struggle to get a sympathetic portrayal across.

As they are they are making the public well aware by drawing as much attention to it as they can.

The public are a lot more savvy and vociferous on this, being on the back of a continuous attack from Blair onwards, in particular regard to major changes. It has been unrelenting since the mid 90s.

The public have seen enough of strikes and the like, at least those of us over the age of 40. If they want to just protest, then carry on doing what they propose. If the want to win the argument then some form of what I suggest is the way forward.......strategy and tactics......

 

[daylightrobber]

That is a naive comment. These are Doctors we are talking about not someone serving you a BigMac..........the 70's are gone, and good riddance. I expect no better from the laughingly termed 'Civil Servants' who are neither civil nor servants, but I would expect more from Doctors..........

Do you look down on everyone working in the public sector

 

[Seanjd]

Do you look down on everyone working in the public sector

I think there's more than enough proof of that in the last 10 pages.

 

[magicjuan]

The public have seen enough of strikes and the like, at least those of us over the age of 40. If they want to just protest, then carry on doing what they propose. If the want to win the argument then some form of what I suggest is the way forward.......strategy and tactics......

Perhaps in the past there was a tendency to strike as a first reaction. History would dictate if that was a big push to gain a fairness in workplace practices that had been fought for long since. At every opportunity goalposts would move and 'the battle' would recommence.

in recent times there has been a concerted effort to renege on 'given' expectancies, hypocritical stances on pay freezes and rises by successive governments and a shift in workplace legislation that is constantly eroding what was fought for in the past, all to eek out a bit more profit. Working people are commodities. Even the professional classes, doctors, nurses, teachers etc are under constant attack and change, there has to be a point of no return, which we've reached now.

There are tactics in place from the government that are ideologically motivated and if their desire is met in this round you can kiss goodbye to the NHS. It has currently 2 years left in it. You want it to remain, you have to make a stand.

Pussyfooting around won't work.

 

[magicjuan]

Do you look down on everyone working

closer....

 

[Old Blue 2]

You seem to be a fan of that relic Corbyn? But that is going down a different road. Doctors saying we refuse to do our job until you give us what we want, damaging people in the process is to me a form of blackmail.

Daft as it may seem, Corbyn is not a relic. He does not get it right on everything, but he strikes a chord with a great deal of the population, I believe, when he talks about issues that they can relate to. Such as returning the rail system and public utilities to national ownership, instead of them being in the hands of the fat cat 'Captains of Industry', which the Tories love so much. And making the Fat Cats pay the correct amount of tax. And the dispensing of the nuclear submarine debacle (what use would it be in defending this country if we DID embark on a nuclear war - it would protect me and my kind absolutely 0.00%!) If we are not careful, the NHS will end up in the hands of the chums of Cameron & Osborne et al.

And exercising the right to strike is not a form of blackmail. In the case of the junior doctors (note the word 'junior', not ALL doctors), it is a case of the Government refusing to negotiate with them, and instead just imposing what they (the Government) want. Utter disgraceful approach by the Government. The same Government which has recently awarded MPs a 15% pay increase!!!

You seem to be a fan of the ultra right winger Cameron...

 

[Old Blue 2]

That is a naive comment. These are Doctors we are talking about not someone serving you a BigMac..........the 70's are gone, and good riddance. I expect no better from the laughingly termed 'Civil Servants' who are neither civil nor servants, but I would expect more from Doctors..........

Utter rubbish from start to finish.

If you think you know a lot about civil servants, then please enlighten me in particular with your knowledge. I would venture to suggest you know almost next to nothing, but I await your further comments with interest. Let's see wheree we go from here, eh...?

 

[Old Blue 2]

I think they should make their case to their patients, they should spend time and effort putting across a picture that shows they are doing it for someone other than themselves. They should honour their contracts yet restrict themselves from the 'management' meetings etc. In short they should be as obnoxious as they can be without once affecting a patient. Let the public do the demonstrating for them while they maintain the moral high ground. Do NOT fall into the trap of being portrayed as a group who are concerned about their own contracts.......

Do you REALLY think that the above is the way to go about it? Welcome to your 'Victorian' approach to employer/employee relations...

You clearly have not listened to, and understood, the points already put forward by the junior doctors, which was broadcast in the media.

You obviously dislike ordinary workers standing up for themselves, and fighting for not necessarily better terms and conditions, but simply maintaining their present position. From your posts it would appear that you think workers should meekly accept all that employers throw at them, or in many instances, the nothing that they throw at them.

Let's all touch the forelock to the squirearchy, eh...?

 

[Old Blue 2]

The public have seen enough of strikes and the like, at least those of us over the age of 40. If they want to just protest, then carry on doing what they propose. If the want to win the argument then some form of what I suggest is the way forward.......strategy and tactics......

Since when have strategy and tactics won anything in the workplace? You really haven't a clue...

 

[Congen]

Daft as it may seem, Corbyn is not a relic. He does not get it right on everything, but he strikes a chord with a great deal of the population, I believe, when he talks about issues that they can relate to. Such as returning the rail system and public utilities to national ownership, instead of them being in the hands of the fat cat 'Captains of Industry', which the Tories love so much. And making the Fat Cats pay the correct amount of tax. And the dispensing of the nuclear submarine debacle (what use would it be in defending this country if we DID embark on a nuclear war - it would protect me and my kind absolutely 0.00%!) If we are not careful, the NHS will end up in the hands of the chums of Cameron & Osborne et al.

And exercising the right to strike is not a form of blackmail. In the case of the junior doctors (note the word 'junior', not ALL doctors), it is a case of the Government refusing to negotiate with them, and instead just imposing what they (the Government) want. Utter disgraceful approach by the Government. The same Government which has recently awarded MPs a 15% pay increase!!!

You seem to be a fan of the ultra right winger Cameron...

Cameron is a bit of a tit to be honest.. But what did Corbyn say to keep the unions happy? Scrap the missiles but keep building the subs..what the hell does that say about the man, plus lets get round the table with Isis and talk I mean WTF!! IRA sympathiser! No thanks he's an idiot, but I'll stop this now as it's going way of subject

 

[Old Blue 2]

Cameron is a bit of a tit to be honest.. But what did Corbyn say to keep the unions happy? Scrap the missiles but keep building the subs..what the hell does that say about the man, plus lets get round the table with Isis and talk I mean WTF!! IRA sympathiser! No thanks he's an idiot, but I'll stop this now as it's going way of subject

If you know your history, you'll know that the Government of the day was in secret talks with the IRA right through the 1970s (and probably beyond). What actually goes on in the 'secret' world nobody knows at the time. The US Government was in talks with thei enemy througout the Korean war (and almost certainly before it started, and after the 'ceasefire'). Would you be really surprised if you were to find out that Western Governments were in talks with ISIS...?

And once the missiles are gone, what goes next? Think. There's more subtlety there than one expects...

 

[Old Blue 2]

The public have seen enough of strikes and the like, at least those of us over the age of 40. If they want to just protest, then carry on doing what they propose. If the want to win the argument then some form of what I suggest is the way forward.......strategy and tactics......

Your first sentence: you do NOT speak for me, and I suspect many others.

Your throwaway comments are worthless, as they carry no validity whatsoever

 

[peteblue]

Utter rubbish from start to finish.

If you think you know a lot about civil servants, then please enlighten me in particular with your knowledge. I would venture to suggest you know almost next to nothing, but I await your further comments with interest. Let's see wheree we go from here, eh...?

Oh dear, have I touched a nerve........I have spent 40 years dealing with 'civil servants'......you say you were one in the 70's....for how long......

 

[peteblue]

Do you REALLY think that the above is the way to go about it? Welcome to your 'Victorian' approach to employer/employee relations...

You clearly have not listened to, and understood, the points already put forward by the junior doctors, which was broadcast in the media.

You obviously dislike ordinary workers standing up for themselves, and fighting for not necessarily better terms and conditions, but simply maintaining their present position. From your posts it would appear that you think workers should meekly accept all that employers throw at them, or in many instances, the nothing that they throw at them.

Let's all touch the forelock to the squirearchy, eh...?

I attempted to use a slightly more subtle approach than you would advocate. While you wish to fight the old battles, which do not work anymore, the intelligent approach may be beyond your understanding........