Everton: we look an unhappy camp

[AndyC]

They'll come out and try and play. Just do what we did to them in this fixture last season, Andy. We had a strong, pretty flat back four on that occasion as I remember and a very mobile approach to the game. As nsno chris says: it's a big pitch and we can make the most of it if Barkley as well as the two wide men + Lukaku are allowed to get on their bikes. I look at their defence and it all looks last ditch to me.

I fully expect that game to be won in the final 20 minutes when they should have the Thursday game in their legs coming back to haunt them. I thought WHU who we faced after they'd been in a cup game midweek before we played them faded badly too. Two games in a week is still tough for any squad outside of the moneybags elite to handle at this level of intensity.

However we get the three points will suit me Dave, we just have to get them

 

[Zatara]

yeah but it'll be like buses eh, there'll be another along soon won't there?

its like going into a tunnel...

 

[BlueToff]

...twas ever thus. And that conundrum wont ever be solved until we get a real playmaker in...FFS, how long have we all been craving for a playmaker and it never gets sorted?

True.

I think the move for Sissoko was a way of getting around that in a way.

Whatever you think of the player (and I'm not his biggest fan) he's a really direct and pretty formidable player whether played out wide or centrally (in terms of pace and power).

Had we had a player like that to come in on Saturday, you're suddenly looking at a lot more room for Barkley, who does have the tools to be a playmaker - even if it's not in the 'traditional' sense of an Arteta, Silva, Mata etc.

It is a position that needs sorting though, in one way or another.

 

[squonk]

Someone delete this thread! sake!

nonsense isn't it. massive overreaction to a run of poor results. it will all change when we win again.

 

[4737carlin]

nonsense isn't it. massive overreaction to a run of poor results. it will all change when we win again.

People are going OTT, we are only one point from half way to the 40 target and there are 3 worse teams then us!!

 

[davek]

nonsense isn't it. massive overreaction to a run of poor results. it will all change when we win again.

It's not though is it? When it transpires that the players are having a meeting to assess the general situation around our performances then how is this thread 'nonsense' or an 'over-reaction'?

The opening 5 games of the season were encouraging. Since that point we've seen terrible performances and results.

Personally the most concerning thing for me is that there's a widespread belief that we can buy our way into good performances and good results when January comes around. That's ridiculous on two fronts:

1/ what manager simple goes into another club and changes the whole team in a couple of windows or so? They dont. They're there to impose their coaching onto existing players and try a different method with them...supplemented by a few key purchases.

2/ how can people be suckered into believing that this club is going to be sanctioning major spending like that?

This manager and these players need (minimum) to get back to the early endeavour of the season and start getting results. Maybe there'll be a new face or two in January to tweak things, but the answer has to be found within this group...so I suggest that the Williams inspired team meeting include Koeman too.

 

[JLW]

nonsense isn't it. massive overreaction to a run of poor results. it will all change when we win again.

If people have a go at fans for expressing there thoughts what's the point in having a forum??
People are just giving there thoughts on what they would like to see changed its hardly an over reaction is it

 

[Woolly Blue]

A solitary win since September 17th. Manager looking less than a great fit, personality wise, and making a lot of off the cuff comments. A team now looking like it's lost the plot.

I look across the first team and bench and see cause for concern: a GK who knows he's under scrutiny; a captain who looks like he's lost discipline on and off the pitch; the ongoing festering boil that is the McCarthy situation; Lukaku making it known he's relieved on international duty to be playing with players up and around him; Mirallas and Deulofeu looking like they are bit part players and heading for the door; Barkley finding himself the unwanted centre of attention and target for the media.

The team have been questioned again this week about their intensity by Koeman - who also let slip midweek he hoped for four replacements for them in January. Next up is a tough grudge match away to S'ton whose players will be fired up and then 5 tough games on the spin after that culminating on Boxing Day away to Leicester. I cant see the type of fight here with this team that we could envisage picking up more than 5 points. The lack of reaction after the Chelsea mauling was shocking, and that's the best chance we'll have of nailed on three points out the window for some time to come. I hope in private they're sorting this out and that the manager is accepting that he too needs to up his game, because that dressing room can be pretty volatile. Once its lost it's lost for good. They dont do it in public, they make the anodyne comments - all the right noises about doing their 'level best' and 'dont know where it's going wrong' etc, but they know how to 'work to rule' and slip into a crisis mode very quickly.

This upcoming Southampton game will be enormous IMO.

It's a cliche to say we're in a transition period, but we are. The first squad players have a couple of months to show whether or not they fit into Koeman's plans for the next couple of years or not.

I'm not overly arsed about the undoubtedly daft comments that Koeman's made, I'll judge him on results and hope that he'll learn from his mistakes in the media ( though he likely won't ).

The January window will be interesting. The reality of the situation is that we're unlikely to sign any big names, but we'll be looking at faces which don't fit elsewhere and probably a few from Walsh's scouting network that we can all pretend to know about.

It'll be Koeman's job to knit all that together into a team. It looks grim at the moment but he had similar spells at Soton and came through OK.

 

[Khalekan]

If people have a go at fans for expressing there thoughts what's the point in having a forum??
People are just giving there thoughts on what they would like to see changed its hardly an over reaction is it

Agreed.

We have had some pretty passionate and mainly civil debate since Saturday.

And you know what.....it certainly does me some good.

I hope it does the same for others....far better than sitting at home fretting about it with no one to understand your pain

We rant, we rave, we vent.....and we get it out of our system.

I am nearly over Saturday already now and looking forward to this coming Sunday

COYBB

 

[davek]

It's a cliche to say we're in a transition period, but we are. The first squad players have a couple of months to show whether or not they fit into Koeman's plans for the next couple of years or not.

I'm not overly arsed about the undoubtedly daft comments that Koeman's made, I'll judge him on results and hope that he'll learn from his mistakes in the media ( though he likely won't ).

The January window will be interesting. The reality of the situation is that we're unlikely to sign any big names, but we'll be looking at faces which don't fit elsewhere and probably a few from Walsh's scouting network that we can all pretend to know about.

It'll be Koeman's job to knit all that together into a team. It looks grim at the moment but he had similar spells at Soton and came through OK.

It's that last line that troubles me. He does have extended runs when results are few and far between.

My biggest gripe is that the first five games were uneven in terms of sustaining effort, but the intensity nevertheless was there for all to see. I dont get how you go from that to this. How does a manager for over two months worth of nonperformances apart from the West Ham game (when we rode our luck early on) allow this slippage? He's been here long enough with these players in pre-season and the season's start to have them know what he wants. He's rooted to the spot on that dugout and watching this unfold.

 

[Woolly Blue]

It's that last line that troubles me. He does have extended runs when results are few and far between.

My biggest gripe is that the first five games were uneven in terms of sustaining effort, but the intensity nevertheless was there for all to see. I dont get how you go from that to this. How does a manager for over two months worth of nonperformances apart from the West Ham game (when we rode our luck early on) allow this slippage? He's been here long enough with these players in pre-season and the season's start to have them know what he wants. He's rooted to the spot on that dugout and watching this unfold.

I think the reality mate is that, apart from the top teams and the relegation fodder, most teams blow hot and cold.

That's due to a combination of confidence, coaching and luck. To break out of that group you need a set of players who are mentally strong and have an almost unshakeable confidence in their own ability ( even if they don't have massive ability ). It'll be Koeman's task to instill that belief in his current squad or replace them.

In the meantime, chances are we'll hit a bit of form when it's least expected and confidence will grow, but the mentally weak in the squad heads will drop at some point and then we'll have another bad run.

We have some good, talented players, but many of them lack true self belief.

You can see with signings like Bolasie what Koeman wants. He's strong, works hard and is almost overly self confident.

 

[squonk]

If people have a go at fans for expressing there thoughts what's the point in having a forum??
People are just giving there thoughts on what they would like to see changed its hardly an over reaction is it

no one is having a go at fans expressing their thoughts. the overreaction is people reaching the conclusion that the club is an "unhappy camp". there is absolutely no evidence to support this.

 

[squonk]

It's not though is it? When it transpires that the players are having a meeting to assess the general situation around our performances then how is this thread 'nonsense' or an 'over-reaction'?

The opening 5 games of the season were encouraging. Since that point we've seen terrible performances and results.

Personally the most concerning thing for me is that there's a widespread belief that we can buy our way into good performances and good results when January comes around. That's ridiculous on two fronts:

1/ what manager simple goes into another club and changes the whole team in a couple of windows or so? They dont. They're there to impose their coaching onto existing players and try a different method with them...supplemented by a few key purchases.

2/ how can people be suckered into believing that this club is going to be sanctioning major spending like that?

This manager and these players need (minimum) to get back to the early endeavour of the season and start getting results. Maybe there'll be a new face or two in January to tweak things, but the answer has to be found within this group...so I suggest that the Williams inspired team meeting include Koeman too.

Its all good.

 

[riddick]

The reality is that neither you or anyone else is this thread has a proper understanding of how good the youngsters are or if they are actually ready for PL football. This is why we have hundreds of scouts and backroom staff assessing their performances and feeding information through.

Could use this verbatim regarding Niasse. And the simple retort is that people are not infallible and some people have agendas. Koeman is not here for the long haul. He's here to build his CV and when someone else comes calling he's going to bolt. Kids are unpredictable and often make mistakes. USUALLY you know what you get with professionals.

Not the ones we have, mind, but the point still stands.

 

[whiteshadow]

The reality is that neither you or anyone else is this thread has a proper understanding of how good the youngsters are or if they are actually ready for PL football. This is why we have hundreds of scouts and backroom staff assessing their performances and feeding information through.

When youngsters are not getting first team football they are everyone's answer to the problems. When they do play and come up short, the manager gets the blame for not playing experienced players.

In all honesty, if RK had played some of the youngsters this last weekend he would have been criticized as Swansea should be cannon-fodder, to be picked off by our experienced pros.

When many of the first teamers are being played and coming up short, week after week, I'd say you haven't got much to lose.

Maybe some of the youngsters aren't all that, maybe some are. All I do know is managers and scouts make wrong judgement calls on players often. Just because a manager, scout is a professional doesn't mean they'll always call it right on young players. Trusting in their judgement blindy without forming your own opinion is just blind faith.

It's like people arguing that Martinez must know more than all the fans last year because he's a manager and they're not. He obviously didn't know more than most fans as he kept on making the same mistakes.

RK has to make his own choices, which he is. If he lost vs Swansea he'd get stick wether he played experienced or young players. I'd say I find it hard to believe that our youth team hasn't got a better striker than Valencia or a midfielder who excels in at least one area of his game, which is more than what Cleverly adds to the team.

All about opinions but I really don't think we've got much to lose by trying 1 or 2 youngsters at times and we may even discover a diamond.