Everton are small time...

[neil999]

I'm sure by now he's realised that Kenwright and Elstone are a big part of the problem and could end up costing him a wedge.

It's just how to dislodge dewey eyed Bill and Teflon Bob, with the least damage / money.

I'm hoping this is the case, although not everything has been rosey under moshiri, two things have stood out -

His determination too get koeman whatever the cost and to sack him quickly when it wasnt working.

 

[Bungle]

I am not for one minute saying we should copy dortmund you utter chard!
I was merely pointing out that you were saying the likes of dortmund wouldnt be all cheesy and abit cringe if they hadent won anything for years, i was pointing out "the yellow wall" got formed during a time of 0 trophies in 10 years

That's a vegetable isn't it? Is that where we're at with the discussion, calling others vegetables?

Knock it off mate.

 

[everton2004]

Get rid of all the Evertonians from the club and bring in a load of grey suits to replace them. We'll be dead professional.

 

[Toffeelover]

or are they?

I've been reading the Unsworth thread this morning and have to say I agree with the majority of what @orly has been eluding to, or at least I think he's been eluding to.

I'm a massive fan of David Unsworth as a person, who knows I might even be a huge fan of his managerial ability in a few games, but who knows. He's saying all the right things, using all the usual buzzwords about history, big club etc, but there's something that bothers me about it. It's bordering on a scripted theatrical performance that Bill Kenwright has written. I mean he said all that and then played a CB pairing of Jagielka and Williams and an utterly useless Rooney.

We've just lost and been knocked out of the cup but there's the tweet @orly highlighted celebrating a debut and the return of the ginger fella with a nationality disorder. I can't think of another top club that deals with this sort of stuff in the same small time cringey way as Everton. We over hype minor events, we team up with Umbro, SportPesa and Angry Birds and that's before we even get to the kitbag deal.

Why would an organisation that has an ounce of sense keep Bill Kenwright and Robert Elstone around? You could argue that it's a transitional period but it would appear that they have just as much involvement at the club now as they did before Farhad came along, if not more.

We have grand ambitions, or so we're told, but everything about how we communicate via social media and the deals we sign suggest anything but that. The twitter reads like some die hard blue that refuses to hear a bad word said about the club, rather than a professionally run club employing a social media expert.

If we truly are serious about being a big club then we need to knock this stuff on the head and start behaving like a professional outfit.

My Friend, if we were at 7th or 8th in the league right now even after losing last night you would never have written this post, would you. You make a number of valid points but the club is in the process of big changes notwithstanding out league position. As in your last line I believe we are moving in that direction.

 

[Toffeelover]

man city and chelsea the big success stories of recent times did not even consider appointing 'one of their own'

They did have a bigger purse than many other clubs so could afford the pay demands.

 

[Bungle]

My Friend, if we were at 7th or 8th in the league right now even after losing last night you would never have written this post, would you. You make a number of valid points but the club is in the process of big changes notwithstanding out league position. As in your last line I believe we are moving in that direction.

No, I see no reason to have made the post.

 

[COYBL25]

I'm hoping this is the case, although not everything has been rosey under moshiri, two things have stood out -

His determination too get koeman whatever the cost and to sack him quickly when it wasnt working.

I shouldn't imagine he's got to be a wealthy as he is, by being a soft touch Neil.

He must've shuddered when Kenwright came out with his latest hang wringing guff.

 

[4737carlin]

Get rid of all the Evertonians from the club and bring in a load of grey suits to replace them. We'll be dead professional.

True this, Koeman and Martinez have shown us what happens when none Evertonians have too much power at Everton, as for the OP stopped reading when i got to the "utterly useless Rooney" line since i took it for granted the rest would be nonsense

 

[davek]

or are they?

I've been reading the Unsworth thread this morning and have to say I agree with the majority of what @orly has been eluding to, or at least I think he's been eluding to.

I'm a massive fan of David Unsworth as a person, who knows I might even be a huge fan of his managerial ability in a few games, but who knows. He's saying all the right things, using all the usual buzzwords about history, big club etc, but there's something that bothers me about it. It's bordering on a scripted theatrical performance that Bill Kenwright has written. I mean he said all that and then played a CB pairing of Jagielka and Williams and an utterly useless Rooney.

We've just lost and been knocked out of the cup but there's the tweet @orly highlighted celebrating a debut and the return of the ginger fella with a nationality disorder. I can't think of another top club that deals with this sort of stuff in the same small time cringey way as Everton. We over hype minor events, we team up with Umbro, SportPesa and Angry Birds and that's before we even get to the kitbag deal.

Why would an organisation that has an ounce of sense keep Bill Kenwright and Robert Elstone around? You could argue that it's a transitional period but it would appear that they have just as much involvement at the club now as they did before Farhad came along, if not more.

We have grand ambitions, or so we're told, but everything about how we communicate via social media and the deals we sign suggest anything but that. The twitter reads like some die hard blue that refuses to hear a bad word said about the club, rather than a professionally run club employing a social media expert.

If we truly are serious about being a big club then we need to knock this stuff on the head and start behaving like a professional outfit.

Agree 100% about the small time nature of the club, still. After all the hype of the last 18 months it's clear we are not emerging from the pack to join the elite. It was a nice story but without foundation. So now we know we are pretty much back to where we were pre spring 2016.

However, I'd decouple that from the Unsworth issue.

The initial turn to Unsworth shouldn't be seen as part of all that. He's a coach who stands every bit as much chance of reviving this season to something more respectable as any incoming manager. The players like and trust him and will want to do their best for him. So actually it probably makes perfect sense to go with him at least until the new year. He's a capable coach at a level below first team and we'll only ever know if he's up to the transition to first team level if we try it.

The superstar manager bingo hasn't served us well. I dont see going with one of our own as a step backward in that respect.

 

[Barnfred 55]

or are they?

I've been reading the Unsworth thread this morning and have to say I agree with the majority of what @orly has been eluding to, or at least I think he's been eluding to.

I'm a massive fan of David Unsworth as a person, who knows I might even be a huge fan of his managerial ability in a few games, but who knows. He's saying all the right things, using all the usual buzzwords about history, big club etc, but there's something that bothers me about it. It's bordering on a scripted theatrical performance that Bill Kenwright has written. I mean he said all that and then played a CB pairing of Jagielka and Williams and an utterly useless Rooney.

We've just lost and been knocked out of the cup but there's the tweet @orly highlighted celebrating a debut and the return of the ginger fella with a nationality disorder. I can't think of another top club that deals with this sort of stuff in the same small time cringey way as Everton. We over hype minor events, we team up with Umbro, SportPesa and Angry Birds and that's before we even get to the kitbag deal.

Why would an organisation that has an ounce of sense keep Bill Kenwright and Robert Elstone around? You could argue that it's a transitional period but it would appear that they have just as much involvement at the club now as they did before Farhad came along, if not more.

We have grand ambitions, or so we're told, but everything about how we communicate via social media and the deals we sign suggest anything but that. The twitter reads like some die hard blue that refuses to hear a bad word said about the club, rather than a professionally run club employing a social media expert.

If we truly are serious about being a big club then we need to knock this stuff on the head and start behaving like a professional outfit.

Great thought provoking post mate.

I think the sad fact is, that to the vast majority of outsiders, Everton are a small time football club. Those deals that we have signed up for are probably the best that we can do at this moment in time. None of the big hitters in the sponsorship world are remotely interested in us, and it's the same for the top players and managers too.

Everton fans are the only people who think we still deserve a seat at the top table. We're the only people who expect us to compete and win at the top clubs, and have this built in self defence mechanism should anybody dare to disagree with us. I'm not saying that's wrong by the way as I'm the same. It's just how it is.

Moyes didn't get us. Every outsider thought he did a fantastic job at Everton and he won manager of the year more than once, but we all felt he held us back. Martinez I felt did get us. But he sadly turned out to be tactically inept as a coach. Koeman didn't get us at all, and that's why we were so quick to turn on him in my opinion. It's the same with our owners. The majority of fans have been against Kenwright for years for holding us back, but outsiders see us as really well run club and have nothing but praise for our chairman. Moshiri is also now finding out the hard way.

Now I'm not saying that Unsy is the right man to take the club forward. He's untried at the top level and is unlikely to attract big named players the way that maybe Tuchel could. But whoever does take over has an extremely difficult job, mainly because of the fans expectations and demands, which are probably unrealistic given the clubs current true standing. At least Unsy would be going in with his eyes open. Anybody else won't know what's hit them.

 

[Bungle]

Agree 100% about the small time nature of the club, still. After all the hype of the last 18 months it's clear we are not emerging from the pack to join the elite. It was a nice story but without foundation. So now we know we are pretty much back to where we were pre spring 2016.

However, I'd decouple that from the Unsworth issue.

The initial turn to Unsworth shouldn't be seen as part of all that. He's a coach who stands every bit as much chance of reviving this season to something more respectable as any incoming manager. The players like and trust him and will want to do their best for him. So actually it probably makes perfect sense to go with him at last until the new year. He's a capable coach at a level below first team and we'll only ever know if he's up to the transition to first team level if we try it.

The suoerstar manager bingo hasn't served us well. I dont see going with one of our own as a step backward in that respect.

I wish I had to be fair as it's kind of detracted from the main point.

 

[davids]

We have been small time for a very long time and until we can go to top 6 sides and get results on a regular basis we'll stay that way no matter how much we spend on players or managers.

 

[Eggs]

..if Unsworth is appointed permanently I don’t think it’s small-time at all. All managerial appointments carry risk, some more than others but the key challenge is getting the right person.

Koeman was a global, high profile name and failed. Martinez had won a major trophy and now manages some of the best players in international football. Surely it’s about getting the right man and only time will tell if our next Manager is.

Let’s not forget, not many managers in the world command a higher salary than an Everton Manager.

 

[Bungle]

True this, Koeman and Martinez have shown us what happens when none Evertonians have too much power at Everton, as for the OP stopped reading when i got to the "utterly useless Rooney" line since i took it for granted the rest would be nonsense

Grateful anyone got that far

 

[Thomasc]

We will have a torn fan base.

One side who want us to go out all guns blazing, throw millions in just so we compete and maybe start winning stuff again and couldn't give a shiny one if the manager "gets us".

The other side think it is not the correct way to behave and believe all managers should have played at least 500 games for the club and have the words "Everton" tattooed on their arse cheeks.

The club took the professional approach and brought a manager in from outside. The manager issue is one thing, but yes the club is still appearing to be run like Bill's "play thing".