Everton and Martinez are to blame should Lukaku leave

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Look back at our recent history and it plainly is an achievement to get to semi-finals

Yes -OUR recent history - and it tells a sorry tale. However, look at the other teams who've made semi finals (And even finals ffs) and it looks worse.

It's nothing to beat our chests about, at any rate. Academic at best.
 

Yes -OUR recent history - and it tells a sorry tale. However, look at the other teams who've made semi finals (And even finals ffs) and it looks worse.

It's nothing to beat our chests about, at any rate. Academic at best.

No point in even watching it then is there ?

But we both know you will, and you'll be as excited as a teenager copping his first feel of a tit, because, despite what we type on here about it not being all that, we'd all love to see Jagielka lifting a trophy ! We can't blame Martinez for our recent history, there are plenty of sticks available to beat him with, but that's not one of them.
 
Dave, I've answered every single point you've raised - but I'll do it again:



"The "great platform" you mention was Moyes' legacy"
- 2 minutes 40 seconds, Martinez words not mine.

"Was he remotely ever being shuffled to the exit for failing to land the CL spots on a regular basis?" Ambitions were lower, the glass ceiling was wholly intact and the squad of a lower quality than we currently have. The Board had no ambition other than 40 points -something I have spoken about in the past and has been acknowledged on national media.

"Martinez progression" - yes in the first year, no in the second year (benefit of the doubt was given as 2nd year syndrome), no in the third year (poor results, lack of tactical progression and ability to change course of games)

"Squad" please re-read my earlier comments - good enough for CL qualification this year but to maintain relative position and progress as described needs significant restructuring.

"The opposite case can more persuasively made that the churn is a result of many teams now being capable of mounting a challenge for top four places in the new financial reality, which has occurred in tandem with loss of form amongst the usual cash doped elite" How you can justify this current squad at Everton not being in the mix is frankly beyond me when you see the achievements of Leicester, Spurs and West Ham this season, unless of course you want to acknowledge the role of their respective managers and ours.

"But it's worse than that, it's an attempt to upshift the stakes" Yes, and under Moshiri ambitions will be higher. As I stated earlier, if Martinez cannot compete in the current environment how can he compete in an even higher expectation environment - simply he can't. I make no apologies for suggesting the demands on the management team in the future are going to be higher than currently. That's why Moshiri has invested in the club to progress us - and there's no evidence whatsoever that Martinez is the man to achieve that and as a result he needs replacing.

As I said I don't expect you to agree but there's a huge amount of logic behind my view of what's about to happen, and Martinez in failing current expectations has no hope of succeeding in a higher expectation environment even with better players - had he advanced with the current improved squad there would be a case, but he hasn't and there's nothing to suggest he would do so in the future, therefore he has to go.


@davek Just give up, please. This is getting uncomfortable to watch now.
 
No point in even watching it then is there ?

But we both know you will, and you'll be as excited as a teenager copping his first feel of a tit, because, despite what we type on here about it not being all that, we'd all love to see Jagielka lifting a trophy ! We can't blame Martinez for our recent history, there are plenty of sticks available to beat him with, but that's not one of them.

To gush over reaching a semi final (Or two as the case may be) because we've only had three in the previous 21 years isn't my idea of something to be celebrated as success per se. To the likes of bradford & swansea, fine - Not for us though. It's a sad indictment that we've underachieved for far too long.

You wouldn't call your kid a concert pianist because they'd learned to play happy birthday on a Steinway. In the same vein, martinez cannot be called a success for guiding one of the major English clubs to a semi final.
 
To gush over reaching a semi final (Or two as the case may be) because we've only had three in the previous 21 years isn't my idea of something to be celebrated as success per se. To the likes of bradford & swansea, fine - Not for us though. It's a sad indictment that we've underachieved for far too long.

You wouldn't call your kid a concert pianist because they'd learned to play happy birthday on a Steinway. In the same vein, martinez cannot be called a success for guiding one of the major English clubs to a semi final.

I'll repeat myself ...

We can't blame Martinez for our recent history, there are plenty of sticks available to beat him with, but that's not one of them.

But no, it's not success. If we were looking at a league finish of 5th to 7th along with a semi and ( possibly ) a final, then it would be hard to argue that he wasn't doing a good job. Plainly our league position is pretty bloody poor really though. I'm looking at Martinez as a bridge to something better though and I doubt he'll be around to deliver what I hope may well happen in the next five or six years.

Time will tell.
 

I'll repeat myself ...



But no, it's not success. If we were looking at a league finish of 5th to 7th along with a semi and ( possibly ) a final, then it would be hard to argue that he wasn't doing a good job. Plainly our league position is pretty bloody poor really though. I'm looking at Martinez as a bridge to something better though and I doubt he'll be around to deliver what I hope may well happen in the next five or six years.

Time will tell.
That's normally how it works when a wealthy new owner is involved.
 
Maybe we should change our motto? How does "mediocrity with a fluked pointless cup win is acceptable" translate to Latin? Shall we be henceforth known as "the school of 5th round graft?"

Pointless Cup? You do know what Nil Satis means dont you? Try telling any of the fans going to Wembley for the semi its pointless, we dont think so.
 

Only way we can keep Lukaku is through a change of manager and some serious investment in our squad. Neither of which are particularly likely.
What about me?

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The Esk is tearing down the cults stronghold brilliant. Have to admire davek the one man army, with his stealth support.
 
If Lukaku does go which I do have my doubts as Everton will really play hard ball and any club will have to rightly pay ridiculas money (real, PSG, Man Utd? ) I wouldn't expect anyone else to match what should be near on £80 how prices are these days. Who would in you opinions would make a decent replacement, I'm wondering for a short term fix how Demba Ba would do, he is a decent striker ( there's no to many out there).
 
I don't know how anyone can argue against this fact. Lukaku had the ambition of playing at a very good level - Martinez under Everton have not and will not achieve that level next season.

Therefore, if Lukaku leaves to achieve his ambitions, it's because Martinez and Everton haven't reached the level he desires.

This is 1+1=2 stuff.
 

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