Everton and Martinez are to blame should Lukaku leave

[blue61]

The retirement of Ferguson, City's wealth and the to money have created a PL environment where there is no such thing as the top 4 any more. 2 of the old big 4 are guaranteed not to be in the CL next season. Even their old fall back option of just throwing money at it is not working. No team can now guarantee sustained CL football so it makes it more difficult for them to get the world's best world beaters like Bale Suarez Neymar Lewandowski etc. They are going for players like Depay and Sterling for big money, shrewd scouting bringing in players like Mahrez and Payet can easily match and surpass that quality. Leicester and Spurs have shown that a talented side harnessed by a very good manager no longer means 'best of the rest' as Moyes Redknapp Robson and ONeill used to find. It now means CL qualification and even the chance of a title.

So the real question is, whilst this window of PL certainty remains open, do we want to show some ambition and potentially put ourselves in the frame to compete for the title, or do we want to give a manager who is on track for two bottom half finished yet more time? Until a new order is established every year we don't act is a potential title challenge passed up. This year has changed football, nothing is off the table any more. Martinez has to go, we cannot waste this chance.

Agree with every word of this. Personally, I've never been that bothered about the 'top four', I'm more interested in titles. Old school me.

 

[FisherEFC]

Tbf I think even martinez knows he's at best buying himself another seasons pay at most. He'll spend big in the summer and will be heckled out of Goodison when we are sat in 13th come Xmas time. Moshiri will want to see improvement after spending big money/looking at investing money into a new stadium and the need to create supply and demand for the 10,000-15,000 or so extra season ticket holders, and that will only happen with a team that is doing well week in week out in the league.

 

[Toffeelover]

Have we not improved from last season to this one? That's all I was saying.

Well mate that may be so but wait until the season is finished. BTW note Dave keeps going back to that first season in his support for RM.

 

[McBain]

How can a manager be applauded for buying great players but not slated for taking that team to 12th and winning 4 home games??

It's quite frankly bizarre the thoughts of some in here.

The thing I keep seeing *them doing is continually referring to our supposed expectations under Moyes, and being surprised the benchmark for the expectations under the current regime have suddenly shifted.

 

[Norwegian Cow]

They don`t exist.

*goes to top of the class and claims the apple

The apple is yours son.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Have we not improved from last season to this one? That's all I was saying.

You call this season 'improvement' on last season? Oh golly!

That's like someone coming up to you and saying: 'Here y'are mate, smell this cowpat...It's a bit smellier than the horse manure but essentially it's better because there's more of it, and it attracts more flies.'

 

[ilikecheese]

Well mate that may be so but wait until the season is finished. BTW note Dave keeps going back to that first season in his support for RM.

At the very least, everyone has to admit we've improved going forward. We've already scored 3 more league goals than we did all of last season.

 

[roydo]

Surely he's being judged against the current PL environment, his results relative to the resources available to him, and his contemporary management peer group?

There's no relevance to the performance of previous Everton managers

I said that that part of Daves defense of Martinez, is, imo, a fair one.

If 2 years ago, we had a really good PL campaign under Moyes, would the brickbats be flying in now? Maybe, maybe not.

But my wider concern isnt really what Matinez did. It is what he continues to do. And although I put it less eloquently than you, I am fed up to the back teeth with the bloke.

Which I find a shame.

 

[Toffeelover]

It is shaping up like Rom will be leaving this summer, so we have to think about that and how do we replace him. Has me thinking that RM will try to get Niasse up to speed backed up by Kone, not at all promising to b be sure.

 

[ilikecheese]

You call this season 'improvement' on last season? Oh golly!

That's like someone coming up to you and saying: 'Here y'are mate, smell this cowpat...It's a bit smellier than the horse manure but essentially it's better because there's more of it, and it attracts more flies.'

I'm just stating the fact that we have indeed improved on last season's performance through 29 games. 7 more points, 15 more league goals, same number of goals conceded.

I realize it's not where we want to be, but we have factually improved on last season.

 

[McBain]

Take a minute to type into the search function...

72 and @davek and see what comes up.

Worth a giggle.

 

[ilikecheese]

Surely he's being judged against the current PL environment, his results relative to the resources available to him, and his contemporary management peer group?

There's no relevance to the performance of previous Everton managers

The same environment that gives every team a ton more money than they used to get?

 

[The Esk]

I am fed up to the back teeth with the bloke.

Which I find a shame.

I agree totally - at a time when we should be rejoicing the successful outcome of the long search for investment we are embroiled in difficult discussions on the future of our manager. It's not quite Everton, but also Martinez is not the right man, and no man is bigger than one of the finest footballing institutions in history.

 

[The Esk]

The same environment that gives every team a ton more money than they used to get?

Yes and on the evidence to date whilst we buy intelligently and well we don't utilise what we buy as well as others, hence the overall effect is negative and why Martinez has to go.

 

[dandydan]

If we win that cup who is going to look at the table from another competition when we are parading it around town? It wont save Robero his job but it will go down as great season for the club, who remembers where we came in 95?

i'd bite your hand off if that happened this season. i'd accept losing every last one of our league games this season if it meant we won our two FA Cup games.

we haven't won anything in over 20 years, there's more to football than just the league. 17th, a cup win and a cup semi-final is not exactly unacceptable considering the square root of feck all we've achieved since 1995.

Maybe we should change our motto? How does "mediocrity with a fluked pointless cup win is acceptable" translate to Latin? Shall we be henceforth known as "the school of 5th round graft?"