Everton and England

[davek]

Rather see Everton win a corner than England win the WC.

 

[evilwebby]

having an interest in the National Team is a hypocritical position when most of our league players we cheer week in week out are from overseas. What does our National Team represent nowadays? It certainly doesn't represent most of its clubs. All it does is provide a platform to boost the profile and egos of the few Englishmen who are talented and fortunate enough to play for one of the big clubs. It represents everything that's wrong with English football.

 

[davek]

having an interest in the National Team is a hypocritical position when most of our league players we cheer week in week out are from overseas. What does our National Team represent nowadays? It certainly doesn't represent most of its clubs. All it does is provide a platform to boost the profile and egos of the few Englishmen who are talented and fortunate enough to play for one of the big clubs. It represents everything that's wrong with English football.

All our 'national' side are the sons and grandsons and great-grandsons of immigrants. It's all so phony. The German national team is full of Poles and Turks and Frenchmen. The French team is practically African.

The whole thing makes no sense to me. There's no unity there; no real identity. How people derive any pleasure from associating themselves with the dog's breakfasts that pass for most 'national teams' is mystifying.

 

[evilwebby]

Bobby Robson and Terry Venables were the only managers who understood what playing for your country was about. They were the only managers who were able to craft teams that played as teams and not as a collection of egos.

There was a time when playing for your country was the highest honour that could be bestowed upon a player. Nowadays players will try to get out of international fixtures so that their club form doesn't suffer.

 

[Groucho]

Apart from the obvious risks of injury and tapping up, having international players is a good thing. I have to say, it's always been Everton first for me though. When internationals roll around, I'm behind all the British teams equally, as my birth certificate doesn't say 'English', it says 'British' and I have family all over the British Isles. To support England alone seems daft to me.

But then I only really have eyes for Everton, and they come first by a huge margin. An England goal just doesn't get me out of my seat the way an Everton goal does - I suppose the view round here is that, like Barcelona and the Basque region of Spain, Everton (and Liverpool, to them) have become our own national sides. With the national neglect of the region in the '80's co-inciding with our two teams successes, they gave the people something to smile about. That's the period in which England lost a lot of support up here.

I agree with Roberto though, in that having players good enough for a national team obviously means our players are top drawer.

 

[Walken]

I think there's gonna be a heavyweight bout on here next summer, you versus Davek, with Nik coming in late with the fold up chair from behind, scenes!

be interesting to see nik talk about football

 

[Garrick]

That's one thing I admire about Americans actually, they love their country and aren't afraid to admit and show it. We could do with some more of that in this country to be honest (apart from in the form of those BNP/EDL pricks, obviously)

It has its downside as well, as you've mentioned. I've always considered it important to keep perspective and still be able to learn from other countries. Many other Yanks don't hold that view, unfortunately.

 

[Housequake]

Rather see Everton win a corner than England win the WC.

This made me howl but i'd tend to agree.

 

[billycopper]

All our 'national' side are the sons and grandsons and great-grandsons of immigrants. It's all so phony. The German national team is full of Poles and Turks and Frenchmen. The French team is practically African.

The whole thing makes no sense to me. There's no unity there; no real identity. How people derive any pleasure from associating themselves with the dog's breakfasts that pass for most 'national teams' is mystifying.

The Belgians are a bit of a mixed bag too.

Witzel's dad is from Martinique.
Fellaini's folks are Moroccan.
Dembele's ol' fella is from Mali.
Lukaku's dad played for Zaire.
And Benteke was born in Zaire.

Looking at the current England set up:

Zaha was born in the Ivory Coast.
Barkley's dad is Nigerian.
Sterling was born in Jamaica.
Welbeck's parents are from Ghana.
Defoe's mum is from St Lucia and his dad is Dominican.
Cole's father is from Barbados.
Young's dad is from Grenada.
Chamberlain's grandparents are Jamaican.
Osman's dad is Turkish and his grandpa is Somali.
Lennon's dad has Jamaican roots.

If we insisted that two generations of a players' family had to be born and raised in England then I think the pool of talent we had to choose from would be very limited and it would put us at a disadvantage with the rest of the world. Plus it's a human rights issue. If somebody holds a British passport how can you deny them the opportunity to represent that country?

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

All our 'national' side are the sons and grandsons and great-grandsons of immigrants. It's all so phony. The German national team is full of Poles and Turks and Frenchmen. The French team is practically African.

The whole thing makes no sense to me. There's no unity there; no real identity. How people derive any pleasure from associating themselves with the dog's breakfasts that pass for most 'national teams' is mystifying.

is every member of the England team English?

Yes.

End of discussion.

 

[roydo]

Apart from the obvious risks of injury and tapping up, having international players is a good thing. I have to say, it's always been Everton first for me though. When internationals roll around, I'm behind all the British teams equally, as my birth certificate doesn't say 'English', it says 'British' and I have family all over the British Isles. To support England alone seems daft to me.

But then I only really have eyes for Everton, and they come first by a huge margin. An England goal just doesn't get me out of my seat the way an Everton goal does - I suppose the view round here is that, like Barcelona and the Basque region of Spain, Everton (and Liverpool, to them) have become our own national sides. With the national neglect of the region in the '80's co-inciding with our two teams successes, they gave the people something to smile about. That's the period in which England lost a lot of support up here.

I agree with Roberto though, in that having players good enough for a national team obviously means our players are top drawer.

Interesting that Groucho. The genetic make up of a lot of Scousers is heavily leaning towards a large Celt influence. I am no Scouser, (Wirral), but even I have Welsh & Irish in the recent family tree, and my surname is Gaelic for "Rye on the hill/Rye farmer". Point is, that might be why the affection for England might be less than in other areas of the UK.

 

[davek]

The Belgians are a bit of a mixed bag too.

Witzel's dad is from Martinique.
Fellaini's folks are Moroccan.
Dembele's ol' fella is from Mali.
Lukaku's dad played for Zaire.
And Benteke was born in Zaire.

Looking at the current England set up:

Zaha was born in the Ivory Coast.
Barkley's dad is Nigerian.
Sterling was born in Jamaica.
Welbeck's parents are from Ghana.
Defoe's mum is from St Lucia and his dad is Dominican.
Cole's father is from Barbados.
Young's dad is from Grenada.
Chamberlain's grandparents are Jamaican.
Osman's dad is Turkish and his grandpa is Somali.
Lennon's dad has Jamaican roots.

If we insisted that two generations of a players' family had to be born and raised in England then I think the pool of talent we had to choose from would be very limited and it would put us at a disadvantage with the rest of the world. Plus it's a human rights issue. If somebody holds a British passport how can you deny them the opportunity to represent that country?

Even allowing for that:

Jagileka Polish family
Rooney/Carrick/Cahill Irish names
Hart Scottish name

etc etc

There's not much sense to it to me...at least for advanced cosmopolitan nations with a heterogeneous population like ours.

It's a patchwork quilt...a forced unity.

BTW, I'm not really bothered who plays for national teams (England can have 11 Gurkhas playing for them as far as I'm concerned). I'm just saying that as well as being a drain on our club's resources it cant possibly satisfy anyone either, surely?

 

[chicoazul]

God no, if I could withdraw them all from internationals I would. Apart from Kev and Lukaku obviously, because being Belgian is sexy and boss.

Can't stand the England set-up, detrimental to football as a whole in the country and don't see anything to be supportive of so definitely prefer out players to go and have a nice bit of a spa break for the weekend. Mudpack on their face etc than line up to represent the FA and the monotonous football played at national level.

Obviously, I wouldn't force them to withdraw, just give them a Champney's voucher for the week and let them decide.

This man speaks my language. Is right.

All our 'national' side are the sons and grandsons and great-grandsons of immigrants. It's all so phony. The German national team is full of Poles and Turks and Frenchmen. The French team is practically African.

The whole thing makes no sense to me. There's no unity there; no real identity. How people derive any pleasure from associating themselves with the dog's breakfasts that pass for most 'national teams' is mystifying.

Defo, its a pastime for fans of crap clubs to have a shot at reflected glory and some sort of bigger belonging.

It needs jibbing off or restricted to summer months only. So they qualify all at once between the end of the season and beginning of June and then they play their tournaments the following summer.

Fills a gap and doesn't get in the way of Everton the bad nazi bastards.

 

[ijjysmith]

Shut up Chico and Davek


INGUUUURRRRLAAAAANND

 

[davek]

Defo, its a pastime for fans of crap clubs to have a shot at reflected glory and some sort of bigger belonging.

It needs jibbing off or restricted to summer months only. So they qualify all at once between the end of the season and beginning of June and then they play their tournaments the following summer.

Fills a gap and doesn't get in the way of Everton the bad nazi bastards.

Injuries and the tapping up of our best players. I dont see much in this for Everton, tbh.

I think there's probably an England forum for the stout-hearted yeoman Englishmen to converse with others of their kind.