Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Joey66]

In October 2010, David Cameron’s Government responsed to an inquiry by a House of Lords committee, as follows:

"because of the sovereignty of Parliament, referendums cannot be legally binding in the UK, and are therefore advisory".

In response, then-constitutional reform minister Mark Harper stated: "The Government agrees with this recommendation.

"Under the UK’s constitutional arrangements, Parliament must be responsible for deciding whether or not to take action in response to a referendum result."

Yaughn Yarn it was not on the ballot paper why did the PM resign then?

 

[peteblue]

Here you go Pete

Thanks Groucho.

 

[orly]

It's all very Yes Prime Minister, isn't it?

Because resources are so stretched, the Government / Permanent Secretary didn't feel that it would be time and money well spent planning extensively for an outcome that, according to betting markets an hour before results started being announced, had Leave at 8%. They are now having to spend vastly more money paying consultants to come in and advise them. In context, the "hire-out " rate for a 3-5 year experience Business Analyst from a Big Four consultancy is about £800 a day, and they've got far more senior people in that that.

 

[The Esk]

It was the phrase "David Cameron's government" that made me suspicious!!! I do think that it should parliament's duty to ratify any referendum, either before or after the event, but find it difficult to believe that no-one in the political sphere seems to have considered what the process would be after a leave vote other than we activate Article 50.

Agree mate.

I've just spent a bit of time reading Hansard (sad I know) on the passage of the referendum Bill, and I cannot find a single mentioned in either House or indeed in committee relating to the advisory or mandatory nature of the then proposed Bill.

At the risk of repeating myself - a total mess.

 

[peteblue]

Has anyone actually said Leave voters are bigots and racists, or are you referring to people arguing that the way in which the Leave campaign was conducted appealed to racists and bigots?

There is a key difference there.

There is a key difference, but the insinuations throughout this thread do not only include bigots and racists, but the views that leave voters are less educated, didn't understand what the vote actually meant, too old etc etc. It has been a running theme with some even putting up articles and stats to prove it........

 

[SNova]

Agree mate.

I've just spent a bit of time reading Hansard (sad I know) on the passage of the referendum Bill, and I cannot find a single mentioned in either House or indeed in committee relating to the advisory or mandatory nature of the then proposed Bill.

At the risk of repeating myself - a total mess.

But why does it matter? So what if it was advisory? Yes legally that would allow them to ignore the people. But it's not right on a moral level.

Just imagine if it were the other way around. The whole establishment against you and your one chance to vote is then taken away.

 

[Clint Planet]

too old

You are a right old get, to be fair, Pete.

 

[edge]

Agree mate.

I've just spent a bit of time reading Hansard (sad I know) on the passage of the referendum Bill, and I cannot find a single mentioned in either House or indeed in committee relating to the advisory or mandatory nature of the then proposed Bill.

At the risk of repeating myself - a total mess.

Total mess I suspect because they never thought it would go the way it did.

 

[peteblue]

Just for Peteblue really. You claim that this thread has changed your thinking. Do you mean reinforce you opinions? I think this because you originally voted Leave, yes?

What I was originally getting at, and not at you mate(!), was that I doubt a single person in this thread has changed from a Remain to Leave or vice versa.

It's just a general observation really. And not just this thread but social media as a whole. I just don't think people change their minds through this medium. It just ends up as a round-a-bout of opinion.

I honestly can't imagine a Leave or Remain voter will have changed their mind through debate on here.

Sorry mate, missed the other one. I have always been a leave voter throughout this thread, and I agree with you that almost no one ever changes their views, obviously apart from @roydo who has been flip flopping all over the place....

Just because no one will change their mind doesn't mean that they will not alter their views in a subtle manner. You can see subtle movement in posters positions throughout. There is also a higher degree of understanding that emanates from discussions such as these.......

 

[Joey66]

And with this post above it shows you have scant regard for the will of the people, if it doesn't fit your own agenda. You simply want to ignore a democratic process. Basically, your views are no longer worth the proverbial carrot...

Its not his agenda it's the 17.5 million you are dismissing their vote!
the ballot paper was voted in parliament the sovereign government by a 6-1 vote on the detail of the ballot paper the cost of a 3 month campaign - It was the conservatives who promised a referendum it was in their manifesto.
How legal do you want it ?????????????
let the supreme court rule over this debarcle where big business put up a patsy to deny the signing of article 50- let the battle commence even if it is overruled you will shout foul play - no doubts!

 

[Joey66]

Total mess I suspect because they never thought it would go the way it did.

I did not think we would get tonked 5-0 last week but we as blues have to live with it!

 

[peteblue]

You are a right old get, to be fair, Pete.

I put that last bit in to see who would pick it up.......it's still a fair cop though......

 

[Joey66]

On the contrary, I was asked to lay out our constitutional position and I did so.

I was asked to point to where a Government minister had stated referenda were advisory, I did so.

I stated that the whole situation is a mess. It's a mess not only because of the outcome of the referendum, but for the poor drafting of the initial legislation, the poor planning of what would happen after the referendum, and the Government's handling of the subsequent constitutional and economic crisis.

The impact of the events of the last few years, the rise of the right and the normalisation of extreme views such as Farage will have the widest reaching consequences, not only in the UK, Europe but other democracies around the world as witnessed by this horrific photograph.

Two great statesmen, stick to their values, and get the vote Farage deserves a knighthoodlol

 

[Joey66]

He sounds as angry as I feel. It's a fiasco brought about by personal political agendas, racism and lies.

so the remain side never told any lies??????????????????????????????????????

 

[Joey66]

You really have no idea at all.

Why bruce has he not googled it?lol