Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

Same old OB2, of course he would be very humbled in defeat and wouldn't dare challenge it (except in the instance of the ruling of the High Court judged the other week).

Just because Remainers lost, that doesn't mean they can't criticise the manner in which Brexit is being handled does it?

Or do you think that all Remainers should now stop voicing any concerns, get over it, and let Theresa May go about Brexit in whichever way she pleases?

I think constructive criticism and suggestions would be very welcome. Trying to reverse the vote or undermine the decision merely weakens our negotiating position and undermines our trust and beliefs in fair play.......

 

[davmaher]

In October 2010, David Cameron’s Government responsed to an inquiry by a House of Lords committee, as follows:

"because of the sovereignty of Parliament, referendums cannot be legally binding in the UK, and are therefore advisory".

In response, then-constitutional reform minister Mark Harper stated: "The Government agrees with this recommendation.

"Under the UK’s constitutional arrangements, Parliament must be responsible for deciding whether or not to take action in response to a referendum result."

The first bit you've quoted in bold is not correct, though. The Alternative Vote referendum in 2011 was binding. The referendum itself was preceded by legislation - the Parliamentary Voting Systems and Constituencies Act 2011 - which passed through both houses and got royal assent in Feb 2011. One of the provisions of the act was that it would be implemented only if it was endorsed by a referendum held on May 10th 2011. The referendum went against the alternative vote, so the legislation was not enacted. The point is, though, that referendums can be binding in this country.

 

[The Esk]

But Esk, you've got no balance at all here.

You do not mention at all that we've also had the rise of the extreme left as well. It's becoming on here that Left = Good, Right = Evil ; rather than an understanding that extremes of anything except Everton supporting is usually a bad thing.

A photo of slightly bemused Jeremy Corbyn flanked by sinister types like McDonnell, Milne and Abbott is just as poor a sign as Trump and the never-elected-to-Parliment Farage at his Aldi Xanadhu

I agree totally, I've been a member of the Labour Party since 1981 and it's been completely overrun since the 2015 General Election.

There is no functioning political party that represents my views and I suspect many others feel the same.

 

[roydo]

The point is, though, that referendums can be binding in this country.

Only if Parliament passes an act prior to the vote, as you pointed out. So they can, or cannot, because of the sovereignty of Parliament.

Which brings me back to my default position of we didnt really think this though. On either "side".

 

[edge]

I agree totally, I've been a member of the Labour Party since 1981 and it's been completely overrun since the 2015 General Election.

There is no functioning political party that represents my views and I suspect many others feel the same.

Count me in that group Esk

 

[peteblue]

I agree totally, I've been a member of the Labour Party since 1981 and it's been completely overrun since the 2015 General Election.

There is no functioning political party that represents my views and I suspect many others feel the same.

1981, bleeding newbie........

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Take no notice mate. Let's follow Brucey's 'advice' and let in millions of refugees, asylum seekers and economic migrants, dump them in the poorer areas of the country, deprive the people there of funds and public services (But not kensington & chelsea or belgravia and the likes, oh, no siree) and see how people flock to the extremists when they're the only ones voicing concern - because every other party will tell you it's YOUR fault for complaining and you're racist because of it.

You really have no idea at all.

 

[scratchnsurf]

I agree totally, I've been a member of the Labour Party since 1981 and it's been completely overrun since the 2015 General Election.

There is no functioning political party that represents my views and I suspect many others feel the same.

So you'll completely understand how people who have wanted out of the EU had felt for many years before the referendum.

 

[orly]

I agree totally, I've been a member of the Labour Party since 1981 and it's been completely overrun since the 2015 General Election.

There is no functioning political party that represents my views and I suspect many others feel the same.

Count me in that group Esk

Can echo you both here - I cannot find anyone I'd vote for or trust in current political framework. Demoralising really.

 

[bring the ghost on]

That's all there is to say about it really. Do you think we should take all the crap lobbed at us and stay silent...?

Well, the trail I read went something like this - The Esk was arguing that (1) the referendum is advisory and (2) Brexit has been poorly managed so far.

You retorted by saying he should get over it because he lost in a two horse race.

I fail to see where the "all the crap lobbed at you" is coming from, I'm not seeing much of it.

 

[The Esk]

The first bit you've quoted in bold is not correct, though. The Alternative Vote referendum in 2011 was binding. The referendum itself was preceded by legislation - the Parliamentary Voting Systems and Constituencies Act 2011 - which passed through both houses and got royal assent in Feb 2011. One of the provisions of the act was that it would be implemented only if it was endorsed by a referendum held on May 10th 2011. The referendum went against the alternative vote, so the legislation was not enacted. The point is, though, that referendums can be binding in this country.

Hi mate, thanks for your contribution, good to have fresh thoughts.

There's nothing in your post that I disagree with, in fact it supports what I am saying.

The AV referendum was binding because the supporting legislation said it was specifically. The EU Referendum Act could have made the referendum decision binding but either by design or neglect did not do so.

Hence my argument.

 

[orly]

In Britain? Absolutely.

 

[bring the ghost on]

Good post, but note that some, like esk and Bruce, have now moved to a position that that derails brexit, not simply have a democratic/just control of what that entails.

Well, there is quite a fine line between criticising and "derailing" brexit. I do think that we need to accept Brexit and make the most of it, however that doesn't mean that (for example) the correct constitutional processes shouldn't be followed, we can't just decide to abandon them.

 

[davmaher]

Only if Parliament passes an act prior to the vote, as you pointed out. So they can, or cannot, because of the sovereignty of Parliament.

Which brings me back to my default position of we didnt really think this though. On either "side".

I agree, I don't think anyone thought it through. Cameron was so convinced he would win I don't think he saw the need to. I'm sure that parliament would have at least known it was non-binding, though, and could have done something to agree on the post-result process in the event of a leave vote. Then again, if it's choice between cock-up or conspiracy my money's always on the former.

 

[bring the ghost on]

I think constructive criticism and suggestions would be very welcome. Trying to reverse the vote or undermine the decision merely weakens our negotiating position and undermines our trust and beliefs in fair play.......

See my post above Pete re the constitutional ruling.

I do agree that trying to reverse the vote is counter-productive at this stage.