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Actually, I posted it.
Current Affairs EU In or Out
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Actually, I posted it.
Clint Planet
Utter Cad.
http://tomdlondon.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/who-is-to-blame-for-brexit-part-two.html
Who is to blame for Brexit? Part Two - what the main players did
Historical background to Brexit
The UK (with Sweden) is one of only two out of the 28 states in the EU which have not been invaded and/or been under a fascist or communist dictatorship within living memory. Unlike most Europeans, the UK does not value the EU for its role in keeping the peace or supporting democracy in the states themselves.
In the UK, the EU has been seen primarily as merely an economic organisation and transfers to and from Brussels have been seen as zero-sum rather than mutually beneficial.
The EU’s own role
The EU itself clearly bears some blame for Brexit. It is an imperfect organisation. It suffers from a lack of transparency and a democratic deficit.
On occasions it has behaved appallingly. The treatment of Greece - driven into penury for political rather than economic grounds by Angela Merkel and others - was a case in point.
The sensible Remain argument was that the UK should remain in despite the EU’s faults.
David Cameron
Cameron bears primary responsibility for the Brexit debacle (and the complete lack of planning for the result).
He offered the referendum because he was spooked by UKIP and as a sop to his own backbenchers. He did not offer it because he thought it was in the best interests of the country. He was unforgivably insouciant. He was weak.
In the campaign Cameron said (correctly) that Brexit would be disastrous. It is unsurprising that the voters ignored him - after all what PM would voluntarily offer the country a disastrous choice? Answer: a PM who is a shallow chancer.
The newspapers
Murdoch, Rothermere, the Barclay twins and Desmond are all tax-cheating billionaire press-barons who between them dominate the national newspaper market in the UK. They all supported Brexit.
Journalist Anthony Hilton once asked Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. “That’s easy,” Murdoch replied, “when I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.”
The influence of the press-barons was not limited to the campaign. For decades their papers have ridiculed and derided the EU and not given the EU credit for anything. They effectively poisoned the well for pro-EU arguments in the UK.
Boris Johnson
Johnson and the other leaders of the Leave campaign told a number of blatant lies.
The UK Statistics Authority even formally asked the Leave campaign to stop claiming that £350 million is contributed to the EU by the UK each week. This was simply ignored. The Leave campaign’s bus was, notoriously, emblazoned with the lie that this sum would be saved and spent on the NHS every week after Brexit.
Nigel Farage
It was Farage who panicked Cameron into promising the referendum. He is a cynical populist, happy to stir up racial tensions to advance his aims.
Shortly before the vote, Farage posed in front of a poster depicting a long line of desperate refugees with the slogan “Breaking Point”. The poster was rightly condemned for inciting racial hatred. Farage would have calculated that it helped the Leave campaign.
The BBC
The BBC is by far the most respected and therefore the most powerful source of news in the UK. It made two serious errors during the Brexit campaign.
First, it allowed the need for “balance” - and the fear of being lambasted in the Eurosceptic newspapers - to mean that it did not expose the lies being peddled by the Leave campaign (or, indeed, some less egregious ones made by the Remain side).
Secondly, its idea of balance was to give the lion’s share of coverage to the two sides of the Tory party plus Farage. Not enough time was given to other voices, including crucially Labour voices.
Labour’s campaign
Labour’s campaign to stay in the EU was led by Alan Johnson but made little impact. In part, due to the attitude of the press and of the BBC.
Jeremy Corbyn
Within hours of the referendum result, huge swathes of liberal-left opinion had decided that the disaster was the fault of Jeremy Corbyn.
This was unfair. Corbyn campaigned vigorously for Remain. He made 123 public appearances. Angela Eagle praised him at the time for, “pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25-year-old tired”.
The media did not give Corbyn proper coverage for all the reasons above plus the well-documented bias against him which has been a feature of media coverage ever since he became Labour leader.
Corbyn was heavily criticised in some quarters for saying his passion for remaining in the EU rated at only about "7, or 7 and a half“ out of 10. This is odd. Qualified approval of the EU was more likely to persuade the doubtful than blanket approval.
It is easy to understand why Corbyn was blamed for Brexit. Labour MPs wanted to challenge him as leader and they needed a pretext. Their media allies like Polly Toynbee and Jonathan Freedland duly wrote articles excoriating Corbyn’s alleged failings over Brexit.
Professor John Curtice, political scientist and polling expert wrote an article in the New Statesman under the heading “Don’t blame Jeremy Corbyn”. He wrote: - “But in truth there is little in the pattern of the results of the referendum to suggest that Mr Corbyn was personally responsible for Remain’s defeat. The referendum outcome looks more like a pretext for an attempt to secure Mr Corbyn’s removal than a reason.” The emphasis is mine.
http://tomdlondon.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/who-is-to-blame-for-brexit-part-two.html
Who is to blame for Brexit? Part Two - what the main players did
Historical background to Brexit
The UK (with Sweden) is one of only two out of the 28 states in the EU which have not been invaded and/or been under a fascist or communist dictatorship within living memory. Unlike most Europeans, the UK does not value the EU for its role in keeping the peace or supporting democracy in the states themselves.
In the UK, the EU has been seen primarily as merely an economic organisation and transfers to and from Brussels have been seen as zero-sum rather than mutually beneficial.
The EU’s own role
The EU itself clearly bears some blame for Brexit. It is an imperfect organisation. It suffers from a lack of transparency and a democratic deficit.
On occasions it has behaved appallingly. The treatment of Greece - driven into penury for political rather than economic grounds by Angela Merkel and others - was a case in point.
The sensible Remain argument was that the UK should remain in despite the EU’s faults.
David Cameron
Cameron bears primary responsibility for the Brexit debacle (and the complete lack of planning for the result).
He offered the referendum because he was spooked by UKIP and as a sop to his own backbenchers. He did not offer it because he thought it was in the best interests of the country. He was unforgivably insouciant. He was weak.
In the campaign Cameron said (correctly) that Brexit would be disastrous. It is unsurprising that the voters ignored him - after all what PM would voluntarily offer the country a disastrous choice? Answer: a PM who is a shallow chancer.
The newspapers
Murdoch, Rothermere, the Barclay twins and Desmond are all tax-cheating billionaire press-barons who between them dominate the national newspaper market in the UK. They all supported Brexit.
Journalist Anthony Hilton once asked Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. “That’s easy,” Murdoch replied, “when I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.”
The influence of the press-barons was not limited to the campaign. For decades their papers have ridiculed and derided the EU and not given the EU credit for anything. They effectively poisoned the well for pro-EU arguments in the UK.
Boris Johnson
Johnson and the other leaders of the Leave campaign told a number of blatant lies.
The UK Statistics Authority even formally asked the Leave campaign to stop claiming that £350 million is contributed to the EU by the UK each week. This was simply ignored. The Leave campaign’s bus was, notoriously, emblazoned with the lie that this sum would be saved and spent on the NHS every week after Brexit.
Nigel Farage
It was Farage who panicked Cameron into promising the referendum. He is a cynical populist, happy to stir up racial tensions to advance his aims.
Shortly before the vote, Farage posed in front of a poster depicting a long line of desperate refugees with the slogan “Breaking Point”. The poster was rightly condemned for inciting racial hatred. Farage would have calculated that it helped the Leave campaign.
The BBC
The BBC is by far the most respected and therefore the most powerful source of news in the UK. It made two serious errors during the Brexit campaign.
First, it allowed the need for “balance” - and the fear of being lambasted in the Eurosceptic newspapers - to mean that it did not expose the lies being peddled by the Leave campaign (or, indeed, some less egregious ones made by the Remain side).
Secondly, its idea of balance was to give the lion’s share of coverage to the two sides of the Tory party plus Farage. Not enough time was given to other voices, including crucially Labour voices.
Labour’s campaign
Labour’s campaign to stay in the EU was led by Alan Johnson but made little impact. In part, due to the attitude of the press and of the BBC.
Jeremy Corbyn
Within hours of the referendum result, huge swathes of liberal-left opinion had decided that the disaster was the fault of Jeremy Corbyn.
This was unfair. Corbyn campaigned vigorously for Remain. He made 123 public appearances. Angela Eagle praised him at the time for, “pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25-year-old tired”.
The media did not give Corbyn proper coverage for all the reasons above plus the well-documented bias against him which has been a feature of media coverage ever since he became Labour leader.
Corbyn was heavily criticised in some quarters for saying his passion for remaining in the EU rated at only about "7, or 7 and a half“ out of 10. This is odd. Qualified approval of the EU was more likely to persuade the doubtful than blanket approval.
It is easy to understand why Corbyn was blamed for Brexit. Labour MPs wanted to challenge him as leader and they needed a pretext. Their media allies like Polly Toynbee and Jonathan Freedland duly wrote articles excoriating Corbyn’s alleged failings over Brexit.
Professor John Curtice, political scientist and polling expert wrote an article in the New Statesman under the heading “Don’t blame Jeremy Corbyn”. He wrote: - “But in truth there is little in the pattern of the results of the referendum to suggest that Mr Corbyn was personally responsible for Remain’s defeat. The referendum outcome looks more like a pretext for an attempt to secure Mr Corbyn’s removal than a reason.” The emphasis is mine.
http://tomdlondon.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/who-is-to-blame-for-brexit-part-two.html
davids
Player Valuation: £70m
I haven't see the deal and neither have you,but I'm betting if and when we leave the single market tariffs are at the heart of it,and I'd also bet it's open ended.Utter tosh Sir Digby jones stated every deal done all over the world is done behind closed doors, and ask yourself this how where nissan enticed here in the first place ?
Even super stores to got to an area in local authorities sometimes get enticed with business rates free for the first year, blane brexit on great news?
The fact that Labour want to see the details get into power to have that right!
Is and buts pots and pans a business deal is usually behind closed doors if the Labour Party want to do them or know about them get into power with a good PM - also to get Nissan here in the first place a deal was done when we were inside the EU with commitment to the EU so blame Brexit hey?
Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
I absolutely disagree, there has to be some level of control. Our infrastructure just cannot bear unlimited, unfettered immigration. You never seem to consider this aspect, bit like living in a goldfish bowl. I still do not see that the bulk of the immigrants that have come here like for example from Poland, Romania are wealth distributive (except back to their own country? or creative! Not quite clear either what you mean by creative.
You basically are defending the Schengen agreement to support your adherence to remaining in the EU.
Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
Who got Nissan here in the first place? Thatcher and Lawson!
I don't believe anyone really "knows" what is going to happen economically so I guess yes one of the reasons I voted Brexit was a gut feeling.
The other's were (a big one) sovereignity/making our own decisions and a feeling (though backed up with history of when empires get too big they eventually fall) that it is only time before the EU crumbles anyway so we might as well get out now.
(On a slight tangent but related to the last point, I have worked for the same employer for 20 years and in that time I have seen the organisation decentralise into numerous separate parts, centralise again and then decentralise again. It is an eternal cycle, just like that between devolved and centralised democracy).
The final reason immigration I recognize peoples feelings about. The current wave of immigration is the only one I remember in my life time that has raised the population like this one has. I do feel the population has got far too dense in many areas (certainly London where I live) though unlike Farage I could not care less where people are from, enjoy hearing different languages on the tube and mixing with a multiracial workforce and even (in the past) having girlfriends of a different race.
By the way, many black and other ethnic people I know voted Brexit, though I doubt any of them agreed with Farage (and I take your point that London as a whole didn't).
Anyway, thanks for such a civil argument on an issue which seems to stir up a lot of feeling!
Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
A long discourse. But I think many people like myself welcomed the chance to to vote as an expression of dissatisfaction with being in the EU and wanted to say goodbye. It seems to me that millions were like minded never mind what the politicos said or did not say.
davids
Player Valuation: £70m
As the saying goes that was then this is now.Is Brexit to blame for the uncertainty about continued access to the Single Market?
We can have access if it's agreed without being in the EU!
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
So therefore if we extend it to the world, it will be even more advantageous ,wealth distributive and creative...or doesn't it work like that......
The Esk
Player Valuation: £70m
There are many studies that prove beyond all doubt that immigrants are net contributors to the British economy. Their economic activity in the UK is wealth creative, they work here, produce and consume, thus contributing to wealth creation.
It's also wealth distributive in that they contribute to their home economies through the results of their labours here. That should be encouraged, the stronger the weaker/less resourced countries of Europe become then the stronger Europe becomes as a whole.
In terms of local infrastructure, yes I accept that causes problems, but actually the principal cause is not the presence of immigrants but the political decision to not provide sufficient funding for education, health and social services locally. We are a nation that is wealthy enough to support the infrastructure requirements of our current population and more, including immigrants, however the Government make a political decision not to provide the necessary resources. Spending on infrastructure is investment, investment in the future of our country, it's only a question of whether or not it is a political priority.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Yeah, I know mate, Bruce told me a while back......I'm blaming my manflu.....
bring the ghost on
Player Valuation: £35m
This is all very valid, the "immigrants are putting tremendous strain on our country" agenda has been peddled by a large portion of the media, the UKIP and the anti-immigrant/eurosceptic faction of the conservatives for a very long time, but on balance, it is clear that free movement of people has contributed more to the country than it has cost.
Give us the oncost of immigration on housing benefits, tax credits, child tax credit which the latter is paid even if they go home?
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