Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

Hiya Pete

Work ruled my life today, so I wasn't able to respond in time.

Sycophantic? You have it all wrong.

He answered your question as clear as the light of day, but for some reason you are choosing to be obtuse. You are far too smart for to not see that he addressed why he feels free movement includes trade and people for him. I honestly don't know how he could have made it clearer in that post.

I have not even expressed my opinion on his his opinion BTW...I am only a bit frustrated that you poo pooed a detailed and clear answer to a question which you said @The Esk didn't answer. He did, in fact, answer it. Either reading comprehension is an issue for you, or you cannot connect to the dots between the points he made and the word 'trade'.

I know reading comprehension is not your problem...you do quite well on the ale. I think you are being obtuse on not connecting the obvious dots...mostly because: @peteblue is to the conservatives and Brexit as @davek is to Roberto Martinez and his ability as a manager.

I would have much rather seen you make your argument about his thoughts on why he thinks the freedom movement of people is equally important to the freedom movement of capital, goods, and services (also known as trade).

Instead you chose to take the 'he never answered my question' route.

This forum would be so much better on these sort of discussions, if point scoring wasn't the aim.

Anyway mate...I will be sound asleep when you respond (if you do). I'll read it at about 15:00 (your time) tomorrow.

If you read his reply again, you will see that Esk immediately started referring to the single Market and it's four freedoms and everything else just flowed from that.

However the question that was actually posed only pertained to Trade and Freedom of Movement, nothing to do with trade within the single Market, nothing to do with being members of the EU, or even Brexit.....just a simple question about generic Trade. Esk just immediately assumed this meant being in the single market because thats what he wants and as his answer showed.

Canada will trade with the EU without any mention of freedom of movement, as will the USA et al,if the EU can ever agree on anything. Yet the remainers keep going on about these four freedoms, in religious tones, without once considering that the UK can actually trade with the EU, just like anyone else can, without freedom of movement. The EU can have all the freedom of movement it wishes within the EU, but we will not be a part of the EU, we will be a separate sovereign nation looking to trade with our nearest neighbours and providing them with one of their largest trading markets and with whom they currently have a massive trade surplus.

The other day I referred to 'a conversation between the deaf, or in this case the blind', and I accept that this works both ways and does indeed cause confusion. I therefore apologise for the sycophant label that I attributed to your post, but 'obtuse', really......

 

[davids]

I hope so. Keep jobs here what is more important than that? Would you prefer those jobs to have been exported to a Renault factory in France?

Hopefully all the other businesses will view that decision positively and stay here. Always amazes me that in the wake of the referendum the doom laden talk of loss of businesses and therefore jobs to the continent has those who voted to remain rubbing their hands with glee and saying we told you so!

Add to that flaming Blair has called for a 2nd vote! Just him trying to get back into UK politics, when no one wants him.

So buying jobs is a good thing?Other businesses will rub their hands knowing the UK goverment will in effect pay for any duty that they will be liable for after the withdrawal from the single market (anyone who thinks we'll stay in with border controls needs to rethink the situation).

 

[bring back the catt]

Notice the peak was in 2010, What happened that year?????????? Could that be part of an explanation?

Wasn't that the year when the Honourable A. B. Liar buggered off?
And yes, I am a socialist. Which is more than I could ever say about that disgrace of a Prime Minister.

 

[dholliday]

Wasn't that the year when the Honourable A. B. Liar buggered off?
And yes, I am a socialist. Which is more than I could ever say about that disgrace of a Prime Minister.

no that was sooner, 2010 was the year the Tories got back in, in a grand coalition with the LibDems.

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

google Uber I am sure they operate totally in a very poor way to how you work Paris banned them Boris let them in I have heard some horrific stories about their practices on LBC radio etc etc in fact a LBC polictical reporter managed to get a Uber license by using a false name no checks etc they really do sound like a very bad firm!
Did you see their representative they put on the TV to argue about it he looked like someone of the apprentice|!

Uber are boss. My Dad was a cabbie and worked for a regular private hire company who demanded ridiculous rates off him each week.

Now with Uber there is none of that. A taxi driver can no longer work all week and come out in debt.

 

[The Esk]

If you read his reply again, you will see that Esk immediately started referring to the single Market and it's four freedoms and everything else just flowed from that.

However the question that was actually posed only pertained to Trade and Freedom of Movement, nothing to do with trade within the single Market, nothing to do with being members of the EU, or even Brexit.....just a simple question about generic Trade. Esk just immediately assumed this meant being in the single market because thats what he wants and as his answer showed......

The question was why free movement and free trade need be intertwined.

My answer was thus:

"The single market stands on 4 basic 'freedoms' the free movement of goods; workers; right of establishment and freedom to provide services; and finally free movement of capital.

For me, each freedom is an intrinsic part of the single market, none more important than the other. I firmly believe that. I've worked all over the world and outside of Europe had huge issues setting up businesses and determining my right to do business, employ people, create products and services etc etc. Yet in Europe none of those issues exist, and I believe that to be a huge competitive advantage for businesses but also employees as well."

I provided an answer that put into context, answered why and demonstrated why trade and freedom of movement should be entwined not only in Europe but how when there is no freedom of movement or indeed restraints on movement it affects trade by making it more difficult.

You may not agree with freedom of movement, that is your right, but undoubtably trade and therefore people benefit as a result.

 

[1966efc]

The question was why free movement and free trade need be intertwined.

My answer was thus:

"The single market stands on 4 basic 'freedoms' the free movement of goods; workers; right of establishment and freedom to provide services; and finally free movement of capital.

For me, each freedom is an intrinsic part of the single market, none more important than the other. I firmly believe that. I've worked all over the world and outside of Europe had huge issues setting up businesses and determining my right to do business, employ people, create products and services etc etc. Yet in Europe none of those issues exist, and I believe that to be a huge competitive advantage for businesses but also employees as well."

I provided an answer that put into context, answered why and demonstrated why trade and freedom of movement should be entwined not only in Europe but how when there is no freedom of movement or indeed restraints on movement it affects trade by making it more difficult.

You may not agree with freedom of movement, that is your right, but undoubtably trade and therefore people benefit as a result.

I'm probably missing something here &, if so, apologies, but I can't find any necessary link between freedom of movement and trade. As it stands, what you've said is that they are equally important but not why.

I assume the answer would be along the lines of, "Because the UK can't have one without the other" - but that doesn't equate to necessity, more a philosophical stance on the "Citizens of the Globe" belief advocated by Appiah & others.

 

[Joey66]

Uber are boss. My Dad was a cabbie and worked for a regular private hire company who demanded ridiculous rates off him each week.

Now with Uber there is none of that. A taxi driver can no longer work all week and come out in debt.

I hope they get bossed in courts!
3rd rate firm as exposed

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

I hope they get bossed in courts!
3rd rate firm as exposed

Based on what evidence?

Uber drivers love Uber, particularly when compared to their previous taxi company.

 

[Joey66]

So buying jobs is a good thing?Other businesses will rub their hands knowing the UK goverment will in effect pay for any duty that they will be liable for after the withdrawal from the single market (anyone who thinks we'll stay in with border controls needs to rethink the situation).

Utter tosh Sir Digby jones stated every deal done all over the world is done behind closed doors, and ask yourself this how where nissan enticed here in the first place ?
Even super stores to got to an area in local authorities sometimes get enticed with business rates free for the first year, blane brexit on great news?
The fact that Labour want to see the details get into power to have that right!

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Nissan still half-owned by Renault, does anyone know?

 

[Joey66]

Based on what evidence?

Uber drivers love Uber, particularly when compared to their previous taxi company.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27733971

 

[The Esk]

Nissan still half-owned by Renault, does anyone know?

30% owned by Renault mate.

 

[The Esk]

I'm probably missing something here &, if so, apologies, but I can't find any necessary link between freedom of movement and trade. As it stands, what you've said is that they are equally important but not why.

I assume the answer would be along the lines of, "Because the UK can't have one without the other" - but that doesn't equate to necessity, more a philosophical stance on the "Citizens of the Globe" belief advocated by Appiah & others.

Am out now but will happily answer in detail later

 

[Joey66]

Based on what evidence?

Uber drivers love Uber, particularly when compared to their previous taxi company.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/0...uber-saying-allowing-its-taxis-was-a-mistake/