Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
Status
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JonS said:
Thanks. I really don't think I am definitely right and I realise it is an issue that raises strong feelings (perhaps stronger than any actual difference that will be made by us being in our out). I like remainers as people (sometimes better than fellow Brexiteers like myself) and I understand why many labour people did not want Corbyn as they feel they can do more by being in power.

It is just that the issue is not just one sided. My impression from visiting many European countries and living in one of them is that some of their liberalism is only on the surface - put a few people of other skin colour next to them and we see how deep their tolerance is.

Whereas in Britain we are (barring a few isolated incidents) truly living and growing up together, having friends from all cultures and countries.

That's why I dont like it when EU officials implied we were racist post Brexit when our country is far better integrated than many of theirs (though I've always been impressed by the tolerance of young German people)

There is a limit to peoples tolerance of immigration though and when they can't get housing or their kids into schools that are only half a mile away they are likely to express that dissatisfaction in the voting booths.
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Intersting point about the so called liberalism in the EU states. I ave been to Germany several times and have friends. However I have also seen under the surface their resentment to immigrants. I witnessed first hand their attitude to the Turks and let me tell you it was not pleasant.

As for Corbyn to me he is to locked into his personal agenda to truly bring Labour about, he needs to see and embrace the wider picture.
 
JonS said:
If I had to guess I'd guess there will be some economic turmoil for a few years but in the long run we will be better off economically out unencumbered by the bureacratic EU.
.
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In what way do you think we have suffered economically due to the bureaucracy of the EU? Bearing in mind that the majority of the bureaucracy is to do with trade regulation (which any trade deal would need) or been proven to be not true like boris' bananas.

Don't mean this to sound argumentative- genuine question. (It's hard to convey tone in text)
 
Fair question and this is probably a crap answer but I dont know exactly.

EU just seems to like being in a disfunctional relationship. Getting out of the relationship is hell but in the longer run probably better off
 
The Esk said:
Meaning those with assets and high levels of income are generally against the freedom of movement because of its potential for redistribution.

I prefer to see freedom of movement as wealth generative as well as creating greater equality.
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The problem is Friend, which folk are you speaking of when you espouse freedom of movement?
 
Toffeelover said:
So, I wish to be clear on this issue. You do not think that extends to non-EU citzens? never mind the '92 treaty. Think of now 2016!
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Yes, freedom of movement for EU citizens (as is currently the case). I am not suggesting that be extended outside of the EU.

Immigration is advantageous to our economy, and is both wealth distributive and creative.
 
But
Toffeelover said:
If you like to see it that way, but nothing has been said or revealed about incentives. Remember when we had Enterprise Zones, were they not incentives.

AS for the jobs, it means people earning paying tax, ni, VAT on spending saving, what more do you want. Or is it no jobs so the governmant gets no revenue but has to pay benefits to those unemployed.[/QUOTE
But once a precedent is set where will it end? Do we cover the costs of every foreign owned companies tarrifs when we leave the single market.Or do you really believe we are going to get the Norway Swiss deal but with border controls
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Bruce Wayne said:
Ok, I'll boil it down. Companies trade. Companies employ people. Free movement says that companies can employ whomever they want without seeking government permission. They can then use this unfettered workforce to sell anywhere they want in Europe, again without asking anyone else's permission.

It really isn't that difficult.
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No, it's an over-simplified model of what really happens which, for example, pays no interest to the rather massive issue of exploitation of vulnerable workforces or the effects migration can have on communities/economies (wow, I almost sound like a kipper here). I was in Spain last week listening to an American talk down to a Spaniard, saying "Free trade is always better" and I face-palmed because it simply isn't true. Of course commerce is integral to prosperity but that binary viewpoint of the doltish Yank simply is not true.
 
JonS said:
Fair question and this is probably a crap answer but I dont know exactly.

EU just seems to like being in a disfunctional relationship. Getting out of the relationship is hell but in the longer run probably better off
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Fair play for being honest... I'm not really sure what to say to that.

I could go on and ask - 'what do you find disfunctional exactly?' But don't think that would be fair.

I do find it frustrating though. You seem like a balanced, liberal, intelligent bloke, but say you voted leave as you think we'll be better economically- but then don't know why.

Seems like such as massive decision the country has made based on a lot of people's 'gut' instinct (code for not actually having a reason) and misinformation.
 
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