Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Mutzo Nutzo]

The US enacted an article in statute from the 40s to block vaccine exports mate.

I hope it’s not enacted, I blame AZ for all this they entered into duplicitous contracts with the EU and UK, both regions have different opinions on those contracts - that’s the issue. The UK has gone protectionilist on exports, EU hasn’t. Clearly the right thing to do is open dialogue and find a middle ground.

I wouldn’t be to worried to of any impact to be honest,

One of the interesting points that I heard regarding this EU v AZ bun fight was that even though the 4 vaccine producing sites in the U.K. are listed in the EU/AZ contract as being part of the EU logistics chain, only one (the Oxford site) is licensed and approved by the EMA to manufacture and distribute drugs within the EU.

The other 3 sites in the U.K. are dedicated to the U.K. supply chain. This surely would provide some background to the supply shortfall issue between AZ and the EU and only serves to show that this shortfall is in part the fault of EU bureaucracy and ineptitude in not getting these other sites EMA approved.

 

[edge]

The EU signed their AZ contract a day before the UK.

Both EU and UK have contracts saying supply would come from Two plants in the UK and Two in EU, Belgium and Netherlands. Both the EU and UK payed for the development of the vaccine and the four sites.

The EU has exported, the UK hasn’t.

70% of AZ ordered hasn’t been delivered to the EU in Q1. The reason?

The UK aren’t exporting vaccine, if that is ok, then no one can have a problem with the EU not exporting vaccines.

The UK vaccine roll out is brilliant, I’m delighted with it, but the supply chain is morally corrupt and built on vaccine nationalism.

The UK aren’t doing it better then anyone else or any cleverer, they are just the fat kid scoffing cake in the corner in school while shoving sweets in their pockets.

The government provided funding for Oxford to research and make the vaccine ,stipulating when they teamed up with AZ to produce the vaccine that the first 30 million produced would go to the UK before September then a further delivery of 100 million at a later date, think it was December, roughly translated to every UK person getting 2 vaccines jabs.
Basically if AZ wanted to produce the Vaccine it had to agree to this.
Any contracts signed off at any date after that were always going to be under that stipulation.
Any further orders from us or anybody else was always going to have to get behind that.
Meaning its was immaterial which date the orders were signed off on, the UK already had the vaccines in the bag, under the teams AZ got the License to produce the Oxford Vaccine.
Also the contracts signed off by The UK come under UK laws, which are diffrent in recards to definition of the terms used to that of the EU, which come under Brussels laws , they are not as stringent in this case on the wording used , even if on face value they look similar., best endeavors ect.
Hence the Government being sure of its stance.
The government is doing what it's there for looking after it's peoples interest, imagine the uproar if they sent vaccines abroad while people here died waiting.
Also the EU vaccines exports are including the AZ vaccine which comes under the above .
The UK government has donated £740 million to COVAX and has orders for 300 million vaccines about 5 or 6 times what we need at present, which they have said they will give all the surplus vaccines to poorer countries.
Hardly the actions of a fat greedy kid in the corner.

 

[Neiler]

One of the interesting points that I heard regarding this EU v AZ bun fight was that even though the 4 vaccine producing sites in the U.K. are listed in the EU/AZ contract as being part of the EU logistics chain, only one (the Oxford site) is licensed and approved by the EMA to manufacture and distribute drugs within the EU.

The other 3 sites in the U.K. are dedicated to the U.K. supply chain. This surely would provide some background to the supply shortfall issue between AZ and the EU and only serves to show that this shortfall is in part the fault of EU beurocracy

Really mate, I’d be curious to see the source of that? Genuinely.

 

[peteblue]

There is some really pitiful defending of the EU and demonising of AZ going on in here.......

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Really mate, I’d be curious to see the source of that? Genuinely.

Try this. Some really interesting stuff in the article including details around the legal liabilities.

https://www.politico.eu/article/cor...contract-astrazeneca-ties-hands-lawsuits/amp/

 

[Neiler]

The government provided funding for Oxford to research and make the vaccine ,stipulating when they teamed up with AZ to produce the vaccine that the first 30 million produced would go to the UK before September then a further delivery of 100 million at a later date, think it was December, roughly translated to every UK person getting 2 vaccines jabs.
Basically if AZ wanted to produce the Vaccine it had to agree to this.
Any contracts signed off at any date after that were always going to be under that stipulation.
Any further orders from us or anybody else was always going to have to get behind that.
Meaning its was immaterial which date the orders were signed off on, the UK already had the vaccines in the bag, under the teams AZ got the License to produce the Oxford Vaccine.
Also the contracts signed off by The UK come under UK laws, which are diffrent in recards to definition of the terms used to that of the EU, which come under Brussels laws , they are not as stringent in this case on the wording used , even if on face value they look similar., best endeavors ect.
Hence the Government being sure of its stance.
The government is doing what it's there for looking after it's peoples interest, imagine the uproar if they sent vaccines abroad while people here died waiting.
Also the EU vaccines exports are including the AZ vaccine which comes under the above .
The UK government has donated £740 million to COVAX and has orders for 300 million vaccines about 5 or 6 times what we need at present, which they have said they will give all the surplus vaccines to poorer countries.
Hardly the actions of a fat greedy kid in the corner.

There is something in that mate, my understanding is the UK provided a grant to Oxford in Dec 19 (precovid) for vaccine research with a stipulation that the UK would have an option on a priority % basis. I won’t say how I know this, but I was told. The EU also provided an Annual 59mil to Oxford for vaccine research annually without that stipulation. The vaccine at the time was being developed for something else, but they changed tack when COVID happened. But then the UK were part of the EU.

So this is a bit more intricate then myself and Pete in Morrison’s, if Oxford had a pre existing agreement with the UK, AZ inherited, but didn’t disclose with the EU and entered into a duplicitous situation.

Part of this is disagreement 1) the uk signing something unilaterally while part of the eu 2) UK part of the EU when signed 3) A duplicitous contract signed by AZ.

Either way what we know is contract obligations haven’t been met, the UK believe they have a right to domestic supply, export nothing and import from the EU - like you say people in the EU see that and are furious because people are dying and vaccines are being sent abroad to the UK. The same way the UK would be if it was happening the other way.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Manufacturers will deliver against orders and contracts. That’s all they can do. VDL screwed up and now wants to rewrite her own contract with AZ and wants the U.K. to let AZ off their contract requirements. It’s a joke. Did the U.K. do a good deal with AZ, yes, did the USA do a good deal with their own providers, yes. The EU, pushed by France to buy French vaccine, dithered and delayed, missed the boat and ended up with just a couple of vaccines, which they then took an age to approve, then have done their absolute best/worst to discredit.

They are a shambles. VDL was a failed German Defence minister but Merkel and Macron shoehorned her into the EU job. She’s fighting for her job, as is Macron, meanwhile millions of doses of AZ are in storage. Yesterday the U.K. did 844K jabs, the whole of the EU did 938K and still there are those millions of AZ vaccines just sitting there. It’s criminal what they are doing, and it’s just to save their own worthless jobs....

What does the EU have to do with how European nations vaccinate their people? I know in Czech that they have zero involvement.

 

[peteblue]

What does the EU have to do with how European nations vaccinate their people? I know in Czech that they have zero involvement.

Other than ensuring they have the vaccines to do it, nothing.....

 

[Neiler]

Try this. Some really interesting stuff in the article including details around the legal liabilities.

https://www.politico.eu/article/cor...contract-astrazeneca-ties-hands-lawsuits/amp/

That’s great thanks mate, I think I actually read it before. I find politico a bit right wing, but that just me.

Here’s the thing I’d be critical of the EU here, the vaccine producers have to apply for sanction of the factories to the EMA, despite the British plants being named in the supply contract to the EU, AZ never applied for approval - so far by those plants.

I’d be critical of bot( AZ and the EU there.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

That’s great thanks mate, I think I actually read it before. I find politico a bit right wing, but that must me.

Here’s the thing I’d be critical of the EU here, the vaccine producers have to apply for sanction of the factories to the EMA, despite the British plants being named in the supply contract to the EU, AZ never applied for approval - so far by those plants.

I’d be critical of bot( AZ and the EU there.

Very strange if true and yes both parties would appear to be open for blame here.

IMO given the fairly lax legal terms around supply and numbers of vaccines produced, AZ took a few liberties and deffo over promised the EU on deliverable quantities.

The EU should also take the blame for not nailing down the legal points regarding supply.

BTW there is an unredacted version of the contract in circulation (I believe sourced from RAI). I haven’t found a copy yet but would be good to give it a scan.

 

[Alan Whittle]

There is some really pitiful defending of the EU and demonising of AZ going on in here.......

Yes, come on chaps. Better defending required. Try some whataboutery or deflection. Tried and tested on this thread.

 

[peteblue]

There is something in that mate, my understanding is the UK provided a grant to Oxford in Dec 19 (precovid) for vaccine research with a stipulation that the UK would have an option on a priority % basis. I won’t say how I know this, but I was told. The EU also provided an Annual 59mil to Oxford for vaccine research annually without that stipulation. The vaccine at the time was being developed for something else, but they changed tack when COVID happened. But then the UK were part of the EU.

So this is a bit more intricate then myself and Pete in Morrison’s, if Oxford had a pre existing agreement with the UK, AZ inherited, but didn’t disclose with the EU and entered into a duplicitous situation.

Part of this is disagreement 1) the uk signing something unilaterally while part of the eu 2) UK part of the EU when signed 3) A duplicitous contract signed by AZ.

Either way what we know is contract obligations haven’t been met, the UK believe they have a right to domestic supply, export nothing and import from the EU - like you say people in the EU are furious because people are dying and vaccines are being sent abroad to the UK.

Dear God this is getting desperate, and as for people dying... nothing of course to do with European leaders slagging off the vaccine, putting the rollout on ‘pause’ and keeping millions of vaccines in storage.....

 

[Neiler]

Very strange if true and yes both parties would appear to be open for blame here.

IMO given the fairly lax legal terms around supply and numbers of vaccines produced, AZ took a few liberties and deffo over promised the EU on deliverable quantities.

The EU should also take the blame for not nailing down the legal points regarding supply.

BTW there is an unredacted version of the contract in circulation (I believe sourced from RAI). I haven’t found a copy yet but would be good to give it a scan.

I’m definitely not opposed to criticising the EU, parts of the development of their roll out has been over buercratic in light of an emergency. I’d have no prob calling that out.

I’d also say the EU were massively naive in believing their would be more cooperation and good will around vaccines then their has been, they have been far to nice, up to now.

But I do believe wrong has happened and the balance of imports and exports is morally corrupt based on the contracts. I’ve read the contract mate, to be honest, I can see the beef, my take would be both the UK and EU entered into contracts with AZ in good faith, with different interpretations - AZ couldn’t supply or meet obligations to either properly from the outset - thus it was duplicitous and in breach from the get go.

 

[Neiler]

Dear God this is getting desperate, and as for people dying... nothing of course to do with European leaders slagging off the vaccine, putting the rollout on ‘pause’ and keeping millions of vaccines in storage.....

I agree on Macron mate, I’d wholly acknowledge his comments are wrong, I think the overhang in France could be partially because of that, but it’s also partly ensuring second doses and also the mad situation of not giving it to over 65s then only giving it to over 55s, I don’t agree with Frances public policy at all and am on record being critical of them. Elsewise that is not the case in the EU apart from the overhang bar the 3 day pause.

The pause itself was over cautious but clinically logical in my opinion, I’m record as that position.

The EU can definitely be over cautious, but with good intentions and reasons.

AZ is a great vaccine, they are a poor company and partner though in my opinion.

 

[peteblue]

Anyway, it will all come out in the wash this week. We will find out if the EU intend to stop export of vaccines to the U.K. and if they intend to take AZ to court. I doubt they will, but if they do, then we will find out the UK’s response...