Current Affairs EU In or Out

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Bruce Wayne said:
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I can’t believe you are trying to defend this gang of shysters. Contracts are contracts. It’s all in black and white. The EU cocked it up, everyone else got in before them and ordered product, that’s how the civilised world works. This is all distraction from their own failings. Stamping feet and screaming ‘it’s not fair’ isn’t going to work. The credibility of the EU, it’s behaviour and its application of contract law, is now visible to the whole world and it’s not a pretty sight.

Do you agree with VDL that the EU should steal private property, steal IPR, and rip up contracts. Because if you do, everyone else will then do it and it won’t be a pretty sight, especially for the EU.......
 
peteblue said:
I can’t believe you are trying to defend this gang of shysters. Contracts are contracts. It’s all in black and white. The EU cocked it up, everyone else got in before them and ordered product, that’s how the civilised world works. This is all distraction from their own failings. Stamping feet and screaming ‘it’s not fair’ isn’t going to work. The credibility of the EU, it’s behaviour and its application of contract law, is now visible to the whole world and it’s not a pretty sight.

Do you agree with VDL that the EU should steal private property, steal IPR, and rip up contracts. Because if you do, everyone else will then do it and it won’t be a pretty sight, especially for the EU.......
Click to expand...
I'm not defending them Pete. I suspect when everyone gets their second vaccines that there won't be a great deal of difference. What I'm pointing out is that Raab talking about vaccine nationalism runs hollow when the UK have exported bugger all to help anyone else. That's the definition of vaccine nationalism. I seem to recall the AZ contract with the EU saying that all of their facilities should be used to uphold the contract, which would presumably include their UK facilities, so the lack of any exports from the UK seems unusual, no? As it is, some 8 million people in the UK have been vaccinated due to imports from the EU, which you would think you'd be pleased with. No Europeans can say the same about vaccines imported from the UK.
 
peteblue said:
I can’t believe you are trying to defend this gang of shysters. Contracts are contracts. It’s all in black and white. The EU cocked it up, everyone else got in before them and ordered product, that’s how the civilised world works. This is all distraction from their own failings. Stamping feet and screaming ‘it’s not fair’ isn’t going to work. The credibility of the EU, it’s behaviour and its application of contract law, is now visible to the whole world and it’s not a pretty sight.

Do you agree with VDL that the EU should steal private property, steal IPR, and rip up contracts. Because if you do, everyone else will then do it and it won’t be a pretty sight, especially for the EU.......
Click to expand...

Pete just because you chant the same mantras over, and over, and over again doesn't make them true. We have a contract; they have a contract. Both should be honoured by the firms that have freely entered into them. If the firms don't deliver what they've contracted to, they should be held to account.

I also would point out that our government already does most of what you criticise VDL for calling for. They do after all seize private property all the time (via CPOs, via nationalizations (or pseudo-nationalizations)) and have form for ripping up contracts too - as they should, where this is necessary to enforce compliance with a contracts terms, to protect a service or to prevent money being wasted or to benefit / protect the citizens.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
I'm not defending them Pete. I suspect when everyone gets their second vaccines that there won't be a great deal of difference. What I'm pointing out is that Raab talking about vaccine nationalism runs hollow when the UK have exported bugger all to help anyone else. That's the definition of vaccine nationalism. I seem to recall the AZ contract with the EU saying that all of their facilities should be used to uphold the contract, which would presumably include their UK facilities, so the lack of any exports from the UK seems unusual, no? As it is, some 8 million people in the UK have been vaccinated due to imports from the EU, which you would think you'd be pleased with. No Europeans can say the same about vaccines imported from the UK.
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AZ will be fulfilling there order's that they already had for months before the EU put the order in ,they cant magic extra capacity, because the EU has cocked up after pinning there Hope's on 300 million pfilzer and 300 million from a French source that failed to appear, it was french national interest's that didnt want the German pharmaceutical industry to get an advantage over it's own, (despite not have a vaccine ready , and infact would not have had one for 12 months even if on time) that caused the delay .
The EU didnt order when others were getting ahead of the game because they were looking after EU or should I say German/French intrests at the outset, now they say the UK cant look after it's own intrests after they had already done just that ?
Anyway why send anything when they havnt used the at least 15 million Doses that they currently have stored and have had them for weeks , while the likes of Germany and France played politics with the use of the vaccine.
Call me cynical but it couldn't have something to do with the German vaccines made for profit that losing out every time a not for profit AZ goes into somebody's arm?
 
edge said:
AZ will be fulfilling there order's that they already had for months before the EU put the order in ,they cant magic extra capacity, because the EU has cocked up after pinning there Hope's on 300 million pfilzer and 300 million from a French source that failed to appear, it was french national interest's that didnt want the German pharmaceutical industry to get an advantage over it's own, (despite not have a vaccine ready , and infact would not have had one for 12 months even if on time) that caused the delay .
The EU didnt order when others were getting ahead of the game because they were looking after EU or should I say German/French intrests at the outset, now they say the UK cant look after it's own intrests after they had already done just that ?
Anyway why send anything when they havnt used the at least 15 million Doses that they currently have stored and have had them for weeks , while the likes of Germany and France played politics with the use of the vaccine.
Call me cynical but it couldn't have something to do with the German vaccines made for profit that losing out every time a not for profit AZ goes into somebody's arm?
Click to expand...

The EU signed their AZ contract a day before the UK.

Both EU and UK have contracts saying supply would come from Two plants in the UK and Two in EU, Belgium and Netherlands. Both the EU and UK payed for the development of the vaccine and the four sites.

The EU has exported, the UK hasn’t.

70% of AZ ordered hasn’t been delivered to the EU in Q1. The reason?

The UK aren’t exporting vaccine, if that is ok, then no one can have a problem with the EU not exporting vaccines.

The UK vaccine roll out is brilliant, I’m delighted with it, but the supply chain is morally corrupt and built on vaccine nationalism.

The UK aren’t doing it better then anyone else or any cleverer, they are just the fat kid scoffing cake in the corner in school while shoving sweets in their pockets.
 
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Bruce Wayne said:
I'm not defending them Pete. I suspect when everyone gets their second vaccines that there won't be a great deal of difference. What I'm pointing out is that Raab talking about vaccine nationalism runs hollow when the UK have exported bugger all to help anyone else. That's the definition of vaccine nationalism. I seem to recall the AZ contract with the EU saying that all of their facilities should be used to uphold the contract, which would presumably include their UK facilities, so the lack of any exports from the UK seems unusual, no? As it is, some 8 million people in the UK have been vaccinated due to imports from the EU, which you would think you'd be pleased with. No Europeans can say the same about vaccines imported from the UK.
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Manufacturers will deliver against orders and contracts. That’s all they can do. VDL screwed up and now wants to rewrite her own contract with AZ and wants the U.K. to let AZ off their contract requirements. It’s a joke. Did the U.K. do a good deal with AZ, yes, did the USA do a good deal with their own providers, yes. The EU, pushed by France to buy French vaccine, dithered and delayed, missed the boat and ended up with just a couple of vaccines, which they then took an age to approve, then have done their absolute best/worst to discredit.

They are a shambles. VDL was a failed German Defence minister but Merkel and Macron shoehorned her into the EU job. She’s fighting for her job, as is Macron, meanwhile millions of doses of AZ are in storage. Yesterday the U.K. did 844K jabs, the whole of the EU did 938K and still there are those millions of AZ vaccines just sitting there. It’s criminal what they are doing, and it’s just to save their own worthless jobs....
 
Neiler said:
The EU signed their AZ contract a day before the UK.

Both EU and UK have contracts saying supply would come from Two plants in the UK and Two in EU, Belgium and Netherlands. Both the EU and UK payed for the development of the vaccine and the four sites.

The EU has exported, the UK hasn’t.

70% of AZ ordered hasn’t been delivered to the EU in Q1. The reason?

The UK aren’t exporting vaccine, if that is ok, then no one can have a problem with the EU not exporting vaccines.

The UK vaccine roll out is brilliant, I’m delighted with it, but the supply chain is morally corrupt and built on vaccine nationalism.

The UK aren’t doing it better then anyone else or any cleverer, they are just the fat kid scoffing cake in the corner in school while shoving sweets in their pockets.
Click to expand...

It’s all in the contracts, and crying about it won’t change it.....
 
tsubaki said:
Pete just because you chant the same mantras over, and over, and over again doesn't make them true. We have a contract; they have a contract. Both should be honoured by the firms that have freely entered into them. If the firms don't deliver what they've contracted to, they should be held to account.

I also would point out that our government already does most of what you criticise VDL for calling for. They do after all seize private property all the time (via CPOs, via nationalizations (or pseudo-nationalizations)) and have form for ripping up contracts too - as they should, where this is necessary to enforce compliance with a contracts terms, to protect a service or to prevent money being wasted or to benefit / protect the citizens.
Click to expand...

Contracts are not all the same and apparently both are being honoured to the letter of the contract, unfortunately the EU contract is for best endeavours.....the EU know they are legally in the crap, hence all this other stuff about stopping exports.

Why are you defending them ?.....
 
peteblue said:
Contracts are not all the same and apparently both are being honoured to the letter of the contract, unfortunately the EU contract is for best endeavours.....the EU know they are legally in the crap, hence all this other stuff about stopping exports.

Why are you defending them ?.....
Click to expand...

The UK contract in based on best efforts....I’ve shown you this already.
 
peteblue said:
Contracts are not all the same and apparently both are being honoured to the letter of the contract, unfortunately the EU contract is for best endeavours.....the EU know they are legally in the crap, hence all this other stuff about stopping exports.

Why are you defending them ?.....
Click to expand...

our contract is for best endeavours (or "best reasonable efforts"), pete
 
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