Current Affairs EU In or Out

[tsubaki]

one of the sad outcomes of that Abbott getting the Board of Trade job was that few people noticed that weasel was also on it (as did Patricia Hewitt, yet another ex Labour disgrace)

 

[Harryflashman]

But we need NI consent for SIs...

They’ll get half of the politicians onside with a few quid and legislation banning the teaching of evolution or anything about dinosaurs.

 

[random]

Soz, only read a few bits. FWIW, I didnt believe much of the Project Fear stuff, in the same way all good news was proof Brext was good, and vica versa.

Just thought leaving based on the bollox that was spouted was stupid.

both sides lied to varying degrees, I am aware I am in forum thread where the majority of posters are socialist and voted remain, that does not mean that everything that is posted is correct just because it suits the viewpoint of the majority

there are not many people in here who offer an alternative viewpoint, nor question some of the posts made without facts to back them up. I like to look at alternatives to my thought process as that is how my knowledge is increased. If a post is made then is it factual or just someone repeating the popular narrative ? asking questions helps in that regard.

 

[Prevenger17]

that does not mean that everything that is posted is correct just because it suits the viewpoint of the majority

Aye, but it doesn't make Brexit any less of profoundly stupid idea being overseen by the second biggest clown in the world

 

[peteblue]

Landing by UK trawlers have actually been in decline since the 50's according to official figures, although as you can see there has been a slight increase over the past 5 years or so

View attachment 99929



source - British Historical Statistics
Defra, UK sea fisheries statistics 2003 table 3.3

House of commons briefing paper number 2788 5 dec 2017

Decreasing ever since we joined the ‘Common Market’......

 

[roydo]

both sides lied to varying degrees, I am aware I am in forum thread where the majority of posters are socialist and voted remain, that does not mean that everything that is posted is correct just because it suits the viewpoint of the majority

there are not many people in here who offer an alternative viewpoint, nor question some of the posts made without facts to back them up. I like to look at alternatives to my thought process as that is how my knowledge is increased. If a post is made then is it factual or just someone repeating the popular narrative ? asking questions helps in that regard.

I said it at the time; the Remain "campaign" hardly, if ever, spoke about the benefits of being in the EU for communities and business and society in the UK. Or if they did, I missed them.

Like you say, they painted a nightmare scenario which may or may not happen, who knows? I just didnt believe, and in some cases, just disliked, who Leave were, and what their message was.

 

[tsubaki]

I said it at the time; the Remain "campaign" hardly, if ever, spoke about the benefits of being in the EU for communities and business and society in the UK. Or if they did, I missed them.

Like you say, they painted a nightmare scenario which may or may not happen, who knows? I just didnt believe, and in some cases, just disliked, who Leave were, and what their message was.

It’s worth re-reading one of Corbyn’s speeches from the referendum then, where he points to a lot of that:

Europe needs to change... but I am voting to stay: Corbyn's full speech on the EU - LabourList

The people of this country face a historic choice on 23rd June whether to remain part of the…

labourlist.org

 

[random]

so to recap, that most of project fear is coming true:

1. cost of holidays has gone up due to the value of the pound

2. ??

 

[roydo]

It’s worth re-reading one of Corbyn’s speeches from the referendum then, where he points to a lot of that:

Europe needs to change... but I am voting to stay: Corbyn's full speech on the EU - LabourList

The people of this country face a historic choice on 23rd June whether to remain part of the…

labourlist.org

But drowned out by the "campaign". I learnt more on here about good EU stuff I reckon.

 

[Azza]

Good job the leader of the opposition isn't a lawyer! Johnson will have no issues answering and debating this in parliament.



There's an excellent comment on the FT about wider consequences, particularly the US.

This displays remarkably poor judgment. First, it makes the UK an unreliable negotiating counterparty - David Davis already created this problem, as did Ian Duncan Smith by systematically announcing in 2016-18 that although the UK might agree to a treaty, i.e., the withdrawal agreement it was perfectly willing to discard those obligations and indeed saw them as non-binding whatever the agreement said. These antics by Davis, Smith and others severely undermined the UK’s is negotiating position during the withdrawal agreement talks. What is now being proposed, is no longer a “noises off” commentary by a collection of fools, but a formal act by the UK government.

But it gets worse - the withdrawal agreement is a treaty - ratified by Parliament and by the EU (council and Parliament) - so is the Good Friday Agreement - for which the EU and the US are guarantors. Indeed the US Democratic foreign policy establishment, and Joe Biden, the odds on favorite to be the next president of the United States played a major role in securing that agreement, the Clinton foreign policy apparatus, likely to be soon back in power at froggy bottom, see the good Friday agreement as their signal foreign policy achievement. If the UK abrogates both treaties it has been made clear on Capitol Hill that no trade agreement with the UK will likely pass Congress. A trade agreement is not in Trump’s gift, it has to be ratified by Congress. Worse yet, Trump is desperate to win the election, and the domestic policy consequences of supporting the UK in screwing the Irish are not something he’s likely to contemplate happily (if he sees it costing Irish-American vote, under the bus the UK goes) – Trump and the Republicans could well ditch the Johnson administration on this issue.

This is before you even consider how effective the Irish are diplomatically – the UK gotten nowhere with the EU 26 (i.e., the 28 member states minus Ireland and the UK) it wasn’t just in Brussels that UK diplomacy went nowhere it was in every EU capital - even the usually awkward Hungarians and Poles (and give the abuse Poles in the UK have experienced at the hands of nativist Brexiters, the UK isn’t popular in Warsaw.) Worse, the Irish are diplomatically “well got” in Canada, Australia and New Zealand - and generally.

On top of all that, it amounts to putting the perfidious back in Albion ... it utterly undermines the UK’s ability to negotiate trade agreements in a situation where it is a desperate supplicant trying to replace the hundreds of agreements it benefited from as a new EU member - in a hurry.

This is a desperately unwise idea to gave even flown as a kite...to do it would be catastrophic. Remember, international businesses before COVID had some luxury to wait-and-see what happened in EU/UK negotiations- COVID and the massive international recession it is driving is forcing the pace of decisions, and-a consequences of tge continuing Brexit fiasco is leading to those decisions increasingly being to quietly abandon the UK. This will make that much worse.

There is a sentiment in the EU that maybe no-deal is wiser - leave the UK out in the cold for a while, even a few years - and after the political tumbrils have rolled for Johnson & Co. negotiate with a sadder but wiser UK.

 

[Jebus_lives]

so to recap, that most of project fear is coming true:

1. cost of holidays has gone up due to the value of the pound

2. ??

Don't be dull

 

[roydo]

so to recap, that most of project fear is coming true:

1. cost of holidays has gone up due to the value of the pound

2. ??

Hows that NI/ROI border coming along?

 

[Jebus_lives]

Hows that NI/ROI border coming along?

Single market access is looking good.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Single market access is looking good.

That oven ready deal by Christmas is on track

 

[Amw79]

I think pre-referendum, I was 60/40 in favour of remain, but was certainly persuadable.

My primary reason for voting remain was pragmatic - did I trust a bunch of politicians more interested in power, slogans and PR to be able to wade through 40+ years of complex legislative entanglement, and trading fine print.

I’ve seen nothing in the 4 years since to give me any confidence that the government truly understand what’s involved, let alone deliver any tangible benefits.