Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Khalekan]

Well ok, but surely Scotland is not the special case that NI is for one very important reason.......it doesn’t have a land border with another EU state.

More importantly Scotland did not have a contentious border drawn through the middle of it.

 

[neil999]

The question is, are the EU peed off with the Tories/Brexit Party or are they peed off with the UK as a whole?

I think they want the deal to pass, but will grant an extension if the only other option is no deal

 

[Catfish Blues]

Can we just be clear on one thing? This is a withdrawal agreement. It is scarcely 1% of what needs to be done here. We're talking as though Johnson and the EU have agreed the entire future relationship, or how citizens rights will be managed or any of the other vastly complicated aspects of our relationship with Europe. They haven't. They've agree the basic terms of Britain's withdrawal from the EU. Lets call a spade a spade.

Err, yea, but you're stating the obvious purely to give voice to your prejudice against Johnson as opposed to addressing what I typed. So far, we havn't managed to get past the first stage of getting a withdrawal agreement through parliament, but it looks like the deal just agreed has a chance of getting through.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather stay in the EU, but that doesn't mean I can't acknowledge the skills involved in the recent negogiations. Not acknowledging them would be like getting spanked by Citeh without, grudgingly, acknowledging the skilful players they have on the pitch.

 

[orly]

So we can get an extension then

- complains about debate
- doesn't read post

 

[orly]

The question is, are the EU peed off with the Tories/Brexit Party or are they peed off with the UK as a whole?

Unfortunately, it's a question with no impact.

Let's say there was an extension that takes us to the end of the current Fixed Term.

There is no guarantee for the EU that an incoming party will take any different approach, unless by some incredible maths, the Lib Dems suddenly surge to 320 seats.

So you may as well see us as a UK. Don't forget - there was a deal last time that the EU liked and every major party in the UK caused it to fail. So the EU see a lot of blame all round.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Err, yea, but you're stating the obvious purely to give voice to your prejudice against Johnson as opposed to addressing what I typed. So far, we havn't managed to get past the first stage of getting a withdrawal agreement through parliament, but it looks like the deal just agreed has a chance of getting through.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather stay in the EU, but that doesn't mean I can't acknowledge the skills involved in the recent negogiations. Not acknowledging them would be like getting spanked by Citeh without, grudgingly, acknowledging the skilful players they have on the pitch.

Well yes, I suppose it is a skill to paint something that's demonstrably worse than what you yourself voted down under your predecessor, and have yourself said would be unthinkable for any British prime minister to do, as something great and heroic. That people appear willing to back him says less about him than it does about the scruples of those who have flipped on this. You 'could' argue that the realities of Brexit are dawning on people, but equally we saw during the Tory leadership campaign when so many used tremendous rhetoric to speak out against proroguing parliament, but then seemed to lose their tongue when it actually happened, that those on the Tory benches barely have a scruple between them.

 

[dublinbluenose]

For me the EU is acting like a previous era colonialist, ever expanding, integrating and harmonising. It will eventually bump up big style with Russia and I don’t wish to be part of it when it does. I’m quite happy being part of a little island minding its own business and looking after itself.....

If only this had always been British foreign policy there'd be no need for the backstop

 

[Tubey]

So I've read the full text now, and I'm left thinking what is the point of that 'deal'.

The Brexiteers are just desperate to get something over the line at this point as they see it slipping away. I understand that, but how does this deal meet their aims? If you want 'independence', whatever that means, you have a quarter of our country basically sold off to the EU to achieve it - is that what they want?

If you're a Remainer, this is a soft Brexit in many ways but also opens every door to deregulation and therefore destroying job standards, wages and rights. It's too much to swallow.

The only way I can see this as a good deal for any group of people is for English nationalists, who don't give a toss about the UK. If that's you, then yeah, this deal meets your requirements, as the break up of the union is inevitable. Scotland will demand parity, won't get it, but will inevitably get a second referendum and decisively win it. The NI border poll is equally inevitable.

But this group of people are basically the racists - the xenophobe 'Little Englanders' who dream of empire and want England to be white again, which was their driving force behind leaving in the first instance. They are, what, 10% of Leavers?

So for most people, I don't see the point of it. I can't understand why there isn't a consensus at this point for a second referendum between no deal and remain, because while I'm normally all for the 'middle ground', this deal doesn't bring the best ideas together; it brings the worst. It caters to the minority, and the expense of common sense and the well-being of our nation. Just so Johnson doesn't have to resign, which is the only reason this deal exists - his own selfish political desperation.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Unfortunately, it's a question with no impact.

Let's say there was an extension that takes us to the end of the current Fixed Term.

There is no guarantee for the EU that an incoming party will take any different approach, unless by some incredible maths, the Lib Dems suddenly surge to 320 seats.

So you may as well see us as a UK. Don't forget - there was a deal last time that the EU liked and every major party in the UK caused it to fail. So the EU see a lot of blame all round.

Surely it failed because Brexit in large part seems to be a damage limitation exercise all round, and large parts of both the country and the house see anything the Tories come back with as inferior to what we already have. If they truly are standing up for their constituents, then they have a duty to reject things that they regard as going to do immense damage to them.

The EU have been here before (to an extent) with the Lisbon treaty and Ireland, so it shouldn't be beyond them to see a second referendum as something beneficial for all concerned.

 

[peteblue]

Russias economy is smaller than Germany's. There is 0 need to be afraid of Russia you paranoid loon.

Russia’s economy is also smaller than the U.K., but I wasn’t talking about economies. Russia is paranoid about its borders and defence. It has a lot more large sticks than Germany. The ongoing Ukraine debacle is merely a foretaste of what I am talking about....

 

[Joey66]

When every attempt to understand the impact of a no deal Brexit has put it at billions to the British economy, and thousands for every household, the question should be why a party who like to think of themselves as sound stewards of the economy were even considering such a plan. Maybe it was the feck business attitude of their glorious leader?

Far from being the party of business, they've taken to ignoring the views of the science and business communities, and pursuing something none of them want, and most of them think will be disastrous.

The CBI the IMF like the deal, and the pound has shot up against the euro and the dollar so yes listen to the Remain moaners in the HOC whom would lie down in the road to stop Brexit just on there crappy principles of losing a referendum they thought they should win ........it's a deal. Not no deal .......this is because we put a remainer in charge in May from day one with poor advisors the next person has opened the locked agreement and kept us out of the EU for an imperturbability as her deal stood on the backstop,.....
Do our MPs embrace it no they just whinge come the next GE they will hopefully get their comeuppance......!

 

[orly]

Surely it failed because Brexit in large part seems to be a damage limitation exercise all round, and large parts of both the country and the house see anything the Tories come back with as inferior to what we already have. If they truly are standing up for their constituents, then they have a duty to reject things that they regard as going to do immense damage to them.

The EU have been here before (to an extent) with the Lisbon treaty and Ireland, so it shouldn't be beyond them to see a second referendum as something beneficial for all concerned.

No - this misses the wider context. The EU is very, very worried about non-Brexit issues at the moment (recession, China / Russia / US etc), there's a feeling now tjat while No Deal would be baaaaaaaaaad both sides are as ready as they are going to ever be, and the "shock" of leaving on both economies would be much worse if we are already in a global recession, whij could be months or weeks away.

Implementation Period (and I'm talking the full 2022 one) gets it off the front page. And let's not pretend either side is going to be in tunneling, intensive negotiations for the full time.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

Russia’s economy is also smaller than the U.K., but I wasn’t talking about economies. Russia is paranoid about its borders and defence. It has a lot more large sticks than Germany. The ongoing Ukraine debacle is merely a foretaste of what I am talking about....

If only all of the EU was part of some organisation established purely to keep Russia from expansionism...

 

[Bluerover]

Unfortunately, it's a question with no impact.

Let's say there was an extension that takes us to the end of the current Fixed Term.

There is no guarantee for the EU that an incoming party will take any different approach, unless by some incredible maths, the Lib Dems suddenly surge to 320 seats.

So you may as well see us as a UK. Don't forget - there was a deal last time that the EU liked and every major party in the UK caused it to fail. So the EU see a lot of blame all round.

My understanding is that the Commission and the 28 other MSs would agree to an extension IF it includes a referendum on the proposed deal and/or on the question of leaving. A General Election would also be a reson to give an extension.

They will not be happy at an extension that simply kicks it further down the road.

Opinion polls indicate that the UK electorate would again vote to leave, but I am unsure about if they would vote to accept the deal.

 

[peteblue]

Serious question though Pete... why is this deal now acceptable when (and let’s be totally honest) a better deal negotiated by May was voted down 3 times ? In the house. Johnson even resigned his post because of it ? I just don’t understand how people can now swallow this.... or is it just a case of any way out will do.

The ultra Remainers and Corbyn have effectively destroyed any chance of a better deal with the disgraceful Benn Act, removing our biggest negotiating chip. The EU would have renegotiated. Even with the surrender act they have still negotiated even though the same Ultras said they wouldn’t. So we are where we are. Parliament would not allow a GE which would have put a strong Boris led government in place to negotiate, because they were intent on reversing the referendum. I would have taken No Deal, but if this is the best we can do then I’ll take it.....there will still be a reckoning against those that sought to reverse the referendum at a GE......