Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Walken]

It might be believable - like Jesus and Father Christmas - but it doesn't make it accurate

Glib nonsense as usual in here, Joey with a spellchecker

 

[orly]

Glib nonsense as usual in here, Joey with a spellchecker

Haha! Find me an example where I've agreed with Joey. Anywhere.

People were posting for days and days that no deal would emerge from talks. It was always going to. Now whether it gets voted through, no one knows.

Genuinely the oddest part of the forum this if people are being compared to @Joey66 for not agreeing with @neil999 a common sense twilight zone

 

[peteblue]

I think we're starting to see the rub here Pete, for all your bluster about freedom and independence (which you would gratefully cast aside to become a vassel of the US)... You just don't like Germans.

I’ve done lots of work with Siemens in the past both in the U.K. and Germany. I have a lot of respect for them as a company and it’s employees as people. However, there remains an arrogance and an underlying belief that ‘they are in charge’ even when they weren’t. It’s quite strange working with their senior people, far more difficult than with any other Europeans, Americans (North and South) or even Japanese and Chinese. I even did a mixed programme for our Directors and Directors from Siemens based around cultural awareness and endless drinking and socialising, but the arrogance was always there.....

 

[Bluerover]

27 MS - we are the other one. And it woukd need to be a unanimous decision, and very recently, I think this likelihood has changed significantly.

On your final point. It's an extraordinarily complicated "deal" document. If an FEP is agreed, it would be even worse. Do people honestly think its contents should be opened up to a public vote?

I don't see an extension at all. Letwin yesterday conceded there are significant holes in the Benn Act for one. And "remain becomes more likely if there is an extension" is completely wrong.

Sorry I should of course have said 27.

As for complication of the desl document try Masstricht, Nice and Lisbon, all of which went to referendums in Ireland, the latter two being initially defeated before we were told to try again!!

I was very angry at those times at the arrogance of the EU and the Irish Governments in refusing to accept the first results.

However, they were about further expansion of scope of the EU not about leaving the whole economic structure. The feeling was that the Commission was getting too arrogant.

We would not have voted to leave completely.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

I’ve done lots of work with Siemens in the past both in the U.K. and Germany. I have a lot of respect for them as a company and it’s employees as people. However, there remains an arrogance and an underlying belief that ‘they are in charge’ even when they weren’t. It’s quite strange working with their senior people, far more difficult than with any other Europeans, Americans (North and South) or even Japanese and Chinese. I even did a mixed programme for our Directors and Directors from Siemens based around cultural awareness and endless drinking and socialising, but the arrogance was always there.....

No further questions, your honour.

 

[orly]

Sorry I should of course have said 27.

As for complication of the desl document try Masstricht, Nice and Lisbon, all of which went to referendums in Ireland, the latter two being initially defeated before we were told to try again!!

I was very angry at those times at the arrogance of the EU and the Irish Governments in refusing to accept the first results.

However, they were about further expansion of scope of the EU not about leaving the whole economic structure. The feeling was that the Commission was getting too arrogant.

We would not have voted to leave completely.

And that's the crux of this. For the time, money and effort that has been poured into getting to just this point , we'd have been better to have just tried to affect real change from within.

 

[Xizor]

I think we're starting to see the rub here Pete, for all your bluster about freedom and independence (which you would gratefully cast aside to become a vassel of the US)... You just don't like Germans.

I've been catching up on the thread with mounting horror at Pete's posting. He's always walked a line for me but the last few days are just indefensible xenophobic nonsense, lashing out at the Irish and the Germans. I can't tolerate associating the national flag with his vile bigotry any further. Shameful.

 

[Amw79]

[

No further questions, your honour.

This is where the argument has been lost. We can talk about laws and sovereignty, tariffs and free trade, freedoms and borders. But it’s very difficult to argue with someone who deeply believes that the arrogant Germans are going to try to take over Europe like they did in 1939.

Also, this type of position is the mildest, schoolboy version of the Xenophobia that is about to be ignited. Just imagine how the EDL-types will feel emboldened and validated when we leave.

 

[tsubaki]

No it isn't. There was a constant attempt at a Balance of Power in Europe prior to WW1. Germany only went for global domination under totalitarianism/fascism with Wilhelm and Hitler respectively.

The same thing happened in Italy with Mussolini and his attempts at repeating the Roman empire.

The German country, historically, has simply been the biggest nation state in Europe (or collection of affilliated states in the days of Prussia etc.), located centrally in the continent and therefore always important, both politically and economically.

You have exposed yourself as an irrational xenophobe with that reply, which is a shame.

The craziest thing about this “the Germans want to dominate Europe” theory of theirs is that, based on pre-WW1 and WW2 British government policy, us leaving European affairs to the Europeans is one of the main things required for Germany to dominate Europe.

Or does anyone think us leaving is going to result in Germany having less influence in the EU? Or that an EU Army won’t now be formed because we’ve left?

 

[OnlyBlueWillDo]

Going to be a few Labour MP's voting for this, being whipped by what their constituents voted for.

Will go close but just fail is my prediction.

Sick of Labour banging on about workers rights aren't protected, no way any ruling party would start diminishing workers rights it would be political suicide, it's just one of the bullcrap reasons they are spouting to spoil the vote.

I still want no deal, that's the best deal for this country, the EU will bend over backwards to sort out free trade deals with us, just as they've gone back on everything they said they wouldn't to get a deal with Johnson.

 

[Chewbacca]

Sick of Labour banging on about workers rights aren't protected, no way any ruling party would start diminishing workers rights it would be political suicide, it's just one of the bullcrap reasons they are spouting to spoil the vote.

Really? I take it you weren’t trying to get gainful employment in the Eighties?

 

[tsubaki]

Really? I take it you weren’t trying to get gainful employment in the Eighties?

I think you are making the assumption that Onlybluewilldo is on the planet Earth here.

 

[orly]

I think you are making the assumption that Onlybluewilldo is on the planet Earth here.

Haha! Only if he has left Planet Lewis

 

[bicycleheader]

Haha! Find me an example where I've agreed with Joey. Anywhere.

People were posting for days and days that no deal would emerge from talks. It was always going to. Now whether it gets voted through, no one knows.

Genuinely the oddest part of the forum this if people are being compared to @Joey66 for not agreeing with @neil999 a common sense twilight zone

Impartial observer but I read this discussion Orly as you basically saying something was not possible or factual but then using only the phrase "no appetite from the EU" or whatever to explain why. I think that makes it sound more your opinion, or a general opinon, than factual. I don't see how its fact that a deal rejection, then an extension which could then include a referendum with remain on the table is not possible? Unlikely maybe, not sure myself, but factually wrong to say its possible doesn't sound right. Is there a reason why that sequence cant happen?

 

[orly]

Impartial observer but I read this discussion Orly as you basically saying something was not possible or factual but then using only the phrase "no appetite from the EU" or whatever to explain why. I think that makes it sound more your opinion, or a general opinon, than factual. I don't see how its fact that a deal rejection, then an extension which could then include a referendum with remain on the table is not possible? Unlikely maybe, not sure myself, but factually wrong to say its possible doesn't sound right. Is there a reason why that sequence cant happen?

No hang on - Neil said "remaining is more likely". That is not a fact in anyway shape or form. What is a fact is the legal default, and it is still No Deal, regardless of the Benn Act. And I've been compared to @Joey66 for pointing it out

But now I'm falling out with people I've been sound with on the forum for several years so I'm going to coward out of the thread at this stage.