Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Dymak]

There’s a border between Scotland and England mate.

Just saying.

Of course. The law, governance and currency remain the same though, whereas they just don't in Northern Ireland.

 

[Dymak]

And where in Armagh did you hear this espoused? Curious as to how you know my county, know how we think and believe this double border idea would go down well.

To answer your point, the ‘invisible’ border was a key concept of the GFA in that it removed all visual manifestation of enforced partition. No one pretended it wasn’t there and to suggest that displays your lack of misunderstanding of why the GFA gained Nationalist support.

Unorthodox customs checks in appropriate infrastructure on the border is total and utter balderdash.

Lower Darkley is the area that I used to visit. I crossed the non-imaginary border on many occasions.

I've passed comment on the proposal made by the UK government, I haven't claimed to know the opinions of everyone in Armagh.

The unorthodox customs checks may be considered unacceptable to some people, but I wouldn't class them as being an impossibility.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Of course. The law, governance and currency remain the same though, whereas they just don't in Northern Ireland.

But crucially they are regulatory aligned and are part of a customs union.

However the key point that’s been missed throughout this debacle by the pig ignorant English Brexiters, is the cultural and social importance of the completely open border. What it provides in terms of well being is simply not understood or valued by those who wrote off the border issue as a ‘red herring’ imho.

 

[Dymak]

Which is the thing - May could have reacted to the three defeats on MV and passed a customs union within a week; she preferred instead to placate the ERG for some reason.

True, but the ERG would have been irrelevant had they have been the only group to pretend that May's deal was the worst deal in the history of mankind, when all it did was ensure that a customs union would be maintained. The other parties have also prevented Brexit with a customs union, which was described as an impossibility and 'having your cake and eating it' during the referendum.

 

[Bluerover]

Of course. The law, governance and currency remain the same though, whereas they just don't in Northern Ireland.

Incorrect. Scotland has an entirely different judicial system which is more like continental Europe's civil law than the common law ststem in the rest of the UK, the Republic of Ireland, Australia etc.

As I posted earlier, there is unchecked freedom of movement of people and goods across all EU Member States and this should continue across the island of Ireland whether the UK leaves the EU or not.

This is far too serious to jeopardise for the sake of the ego and greed of certain individuals.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Lower Darkley is the area that I used to visit. I crossed the non-imaginary border on many occasions.

I've passed comment on the proposal made by the UK government, I haven't claimed to know the opinions of everyone in Armagh.

The unorthodox customs checks may be considered unacceptable to some people, but I wouldn't class them as being an impossibility.

Apologies @Dymak you have told me before of your Lower Darkley Ladyfriend and I had forgotten. I am in An Grainseach Mhór on Sunday as it happens and it’s a small world.

As one of my hinterlands, the proposed Border solution will find little succour there and I would have thought your time in God’s county would have given you an insightful viewpoint on that.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

But crucially they are regulatory aligned and are part of a customs union.

However the key point that’s been missed throughout this debacle by the pig ignorant English Brexiters, is the cultural and social importance of the completely open border. What it provides in terms of well being is simply not understood or valued by those who wrote off the border issue as a ‘red herring’ imho.

This nails it.

Well said mate and thank you

 

[Dymak]

Apologies @Dymak you have told me before of your Lower Darkley Ladyfriend and I had forgotten. I am in An Grainseach Mhór on Sunday as it happens and it’s a small world.

As one of my hinterlands, the proposed Border solution will find little succour there and I would have thought your time in God’s county would have given you an insightful viewpoint on that.

My ex bird went to a mixed school and thought the extremists on both sides were demented. That was something we actually agreed on lol

Edit: That reads like there were extremists in her school, that isn't what I meant. I meant the extremists in society outside of her school. The school sounded liberal and tolerant from what she said.

I think the UK government are blagging when it comes to their pretence that no deal remains an option for October 31st. The only way a no deal could take place is if the Tories won a majority after an election, and even then I don't see every Tory minister voting for it.

So they need to realise that it's either Mays deal or no Brexit, and I wish they would stop dreaming about the 'no deal' that's never gona happen, especially when their behaviour is gona lead to a nutcase Labour government coming into power.

 

[Khalekan]

Your explanation informed me of Northern Ireland's unorthodox governmental framework. I've acknowledged that this changes my understanding of the proposal. I have no opposition to a customs union, but don't accept the pretence that the Island of Ireland is without divergence when it comes to many different things, including the divergence of law between two different states.

Indeed.

And this “divergence” was gradually being eroded and new accommodations being reached since the turn of the century.

For example, the government of the Republic helped finance a new cancer unit in Altnagelvin Hospital in Derry and the NI government sanctioned the treatment of patients from Donegal and other “southern” counties near the border.

Electricity supply and Tourism promotion both jurisdictions are aligned.

Ireland is a small island and the less duplication in essential services and the less red tape for business and farmers the better.

In short, the North and the South of Ireland need less divergence, not more.

And that’s before we go into the historical and emotional issues surrounding the British imposed border in Ireland.

But don’t take my word for it.....listen to business and farmer’s leaders in NI.

They are livid about Johnson’s “deal”.

 

[edge]

Looks like either way Eire has a hard decision on its hands , either a deal like Johnson has offered or no deal Brexit which means they will.have to put an border up to keep within EU free market .
Not good either way they go.

 

[davek]

The Cummings' family farm took €235,000 in EU subsidies.

Unreal.

I hope their son is paying that back.

 

[peteblue]

The Cummings' family farm took €235,000 in EU subsidies.

Unreal.

I hope their son is paying that back.

Good, it’s nice to see some of our own money coming back into the country......

 

[davek]

Good, it’s nice to see some of our own money coming back into the country......

Yeah, and there's going to be £350M pw for the NHS.

 

[davek]

Trust Smeeth and Kinnock to be giving support to this sell out of the people of NI.

Pond scum.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

You know Mark, half of me is thinking that this idea should not be dismissed out of hand.

The Good Friday Agreement loosened British control in Ulster (6 of 9)

Regulatory Alignment between North and South, independent of England loosens it further.

Bank it now and let demographics and the Scots finish the job

What say you, @Armaghtoffee @Charlie Sweet @Emlynsqueakyvoice at al.

I get the way you are thinking, and I am immensely attracted to the lovely Arlene accepting Gerry Adams' demand for special status for the north. She is truly dancing to the Republican tune, but, alas, this so called proposal from Johnson dies in the water for any number of reasons;- you can't give the DUP a veto after x number of years. Firstly because Stormont may never sit again. Also, giving Arlene the veto means that there is a time limit on the proposal. In addition, if Johnson goes to Brussels and says "there you are lads, take it or leave it", how is that negotiating? Regarding the 6 of 9, that area of Ulster has been increasingly looking to Dublin rather than London ever since the GFA, and all of this Brexit palaver, which once again the DUP have shown themselves to be on the wrong side of, has loosened what grip the DUP had over their supporters. Tessie May was prepared to throw Foster's lot under the bus, and Johnson will do the same if it suits. I honestly think the DUP are on their way out. Sorry about the length of my response!