Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Dymak]

We have common ground my friend. Armagh is a strongly Nationalist and Remain county and the prospect of physical customs checks would not be described as reasonable (your words) by many.

As you tell us that you have spent plenty of time in Armagh, and surely must then know the locals, I’m curious as to why you then think this proposed solution is a goer?

Because the proposal reads that regulatory alignment on customs would continue until the Northern Irish government said otherwise, which is perfectly reasonable. Being informed that the Northern Irish government works in an unorthodox manner does change things a bit, but I guess the idea would be that appropriate infrastructure could be put in place during that time so that customs checks could also take place in an unorthodox manner in the future.

Pretending that no border exists and the Island of Ireland is the same state with no divergence is a pretence though, I'm afraid.

 

[Dymak]

There is a "border" that indicates which EU MS one is in. There is currently no " hard" border and so there is complete freedom of movement of people and goods between the Republic and the 6 Counties without any checks or tariffs.

The consequences of UK leaving the EU without a deal, that might lead to reimposition of such checks and tariffs would be a catastrophic undoing of all of the progress that has been made in terms of peace between the two communities over the past 25 years.

Economically the whole island would suffer.

It seems that the only deal that has a chance of being accepted is one in which a customs union is maintained. I don't have a problem with that tbh. It was classed as having your cake and eating it during the referendum.

 

[Bluerover]

It seems that the only deal that has a chance of being accepted is one in which a customs union is maintained. I don't have a problem with that tbh. It was classed as having your cake and eating it during the referendum.

That is the Backstop!!

 

[tsubaki]

It seems that the only deal that has a chance of being accepted is one in which a customs union is maintained. I don't have a problem with that tbh. It was classed as having your cake and eating it during the referendum.

Which is the thing - May could have reacted to the three defeats on MV and passed a customs union within a week; she preferred instead to placate the ERG for some reason.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Because the proposal reads that regulatory alignment on customs would continue until the Northern Irish government said otherwise, which is perfectly reasonable. Being informed that the Northern Irish government works in an unorthodox manner does change things a bit, but I guess the idea would be that appropriate infrastructure could be put in place during that time so that customs checks could also take place in an unorthodox manner in the future.

Pretending that no border exists and the Island of Ireland is the same state with no divergence is a pretence though, I'm afraid.

Except nobody at all has said that that the island of Ireland is the same state. You have just made that up for effect.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Because the proposal reads that regulatory alignment on customs would continue until the Northern Irish government said otherwise, which is perfectly reasonable. Being informed that the Northern Irish government works in an unorthodox manner does change things a bit, but I guess the idea would be that appropriate infrastructure could be put in place during that time so that customs checks could also take place in an unorthodox manner in the future.

Pretending that no border exists and the Island of Ireland is the same state with no divergence is a pretence though, I'm afraid.

And where in Armagh did you hear this espoused? Curious as to how you know my county, know how we think and believe this double border idea would go down well.

To answer your point, the ‘invisible’ border was a key concept of the GFA in that it removed all visual manifestation of enforced partition. No one pretended it wasn’t there and to suggest that displays your lack of misunderstanding of why the GFA gained Nationalist support.

Unorthodox customs checks in appropriate infrastructure on the border is total and utter balderdash.

 

[Dymak]

Except nobody at all has said that that the island of Ireland is the same state. You have just made that up for effect.

Not really. Some people tried to pretend that the border disappeared 20 years ago, which simply isnt true. It hasn't gone anywhere, you literally enter a different state with different laws and currency upon its crossing.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Not really. Some people tried to pretend that the border disappeared 20 years ago, which simply isnt true. It hasn't gone anywhere, you literally enter a different state with different laws and currency upon its crossing.

You said that people were pretending that the island of Ireland is all the same state. That blatantly isn't true no matter how you try to wriggle out of it.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

And where in Armagh did you hear this espoused? Curious as to how you know my county, know how we think and believe this double border idea would go down well.

To answer your point, the ‘invisible’ border was a key concept of the GFA in that it removed all visual manifestation of enforced partition. No one pretended it wasn’t there and to suggest that displays your lack of misunderstanding of why the GFA gained Nationalist support.

Unorthodox customs checks in appropriate infrastructure on the border is total and utter balderdash.

He knows best Ard Mhacha, he has much more expertise on what people around the border areas think than you or me. After all, we only live here.

 

[Khalekan]

Because the proposal reads that regulatory alignment on customs would continue until the Northern Irish government said otherwise, which is perfectly reasonable. Being informed that the Northern Irish government works in an unorthodox manner does change things a bit, but I guess the idea would be that appropriate infrastructure could be put in place during that time so that customs checks could also take place in an unorthodox manner in the future.

Pretending that no border exists and the Island of Ireland is the same state with no divergence is a pretence though, I'm afraid.

I have explained to you in another post why this is not “perfectly reasonable”.

Theoretically it is possible that the DUP might be out of government at that stage but still able thwart what the majority of the Assembly members, including those that were making up the government at that time, had voted for.

That kind of “orthodoxy” ain’t gonna fly no moah.

That is why there can be no veto handed to the DUP.

Though it seems the English taxpayer is going to have fork out billions more quid to keep them onside lol

 

[Dymak]

You said that people were pretending that the island of Ireland is all the same state. That blatantly isn't true no matter how you try to wriggle out of it.

I did nothing of the sort. I stated that people would pretend that the border had disappeared and made reference to the fact that the border remains between two different states to denounce the inaccuracy of such claims.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

I did nothing of the sort. I stated that people would pretend that the border had disappeared and made reference to the fact that the border remains between two different states to denounce the inaccuracy of such claims.

Pretending that no border exists and the Island of Ireland is the same state with no divergence is a pretence though, I'm afraid.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I did nothing of the sort. I stated that people would pretend that the border had disappeared and made reference to the fact that the border remains between two different states to denounce the inaccuracy of such claims.

There’s a border between Scotland and England mate.

Just saying.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

He knows best Ard Mhacha, he has much more expertise on what people around the border areas think than you or me. After all, we only live here.

Depressing that even now, close to Brexit end game, that Irish concerns are still being woefully misunderstood.

 

[Dymak]

I have explained to you in another post why this is not “perfectly reasonable”.

Theoretically it is possible that the DUP might be out of government at that stage but still able thwart what the majority of the Assembly members, including those that were making up the government at that time, had voted for.

That kind of “orthodoxy” ain’t gonna fly no moah.

That is why there can be no veto handed to the DUP.

Though it seems the English taxpayer is going to have fork out billions more quid to keep them onside lol

Your explanation informed me of Northern Ireland's unorthodox governmental framework. I've acknowledged that this changes my understanding of the proposal. I have no opposition to a customs union, but don't accept the pretence that the Island of Ireland is without divergence when it comes to many different things, including the divergence of law between two different states.