Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Dymak]

So why are you bothered?

Because it's a subject that has dominated the news for the past three years.

 

[Khalekan]

Fair enough mate. But am I correct in stating that the DUP have only been successful in maintaining existing law with regards to abortion, and that the DUP don't have the power to set their own laws on abortion?

They don't have to....the anti abortion laws are already in place.

That law was never extended from England to NI.

Westminster has acted though and reformed abortion over their heads.

 

[roydo]

Because it's a subject that has dominated the news for the past three years.

But you have firm opinions now, but didnt 3 years ago? O are you outside the UK, so couldnt vote?

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

The state of Northern Ireland doesn't exist? There are only one set of laws on the island of Ireland? Only one currency? One government?

I've spent plenty of time in Armagh, and I know for certain that the border absolutely exists.

I didn't say that the statelet didn't exist, I said that the border has disappeared; i.e. there is no visible border whereas it used to very visible. But you probably knew that anyway from your time serving here in South Armagh.

 

[Dymak]

They don't have to....the anti abortion laws are already in place.

That law was never extended from England to NI.

Westminster has acted though and reformed abortion over their heads.

But I think this is a crucial point with regards to the viability of this proposal. If existent law can't be changed without agreement, then the customs alignment would remain until there was agreement to change it. Meaning the Irish nationalists could prevent the alignment from changing, but nobody could get rid of the alignment without agreement.

 

[Dymak]

I didn't say that the statelet didn't exist, I said that the border has disappeared; i.e. there is no visible border whereas it used to very visible. But you probably knew that anyway from your time serving here in South Armagh.

I've never served in the British Army. I predicted that people will pretend that these proposals will result in some new border, as if the border disappeared 20 years ago, and it looks like that's exactly what is happening.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

TBF the DUP don't even have to lead a vote - if Stormont comes back, they can veto it as "representing the Unionist community" without having a majority (which SF pointed out almost as soon as this came out).

Good point. Reform of the Stormont Petition of Concern is one of SF’s demands pre a return to the house on the hill.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

You know Mark, half of me is thinking that this idea should not be dismissed out of hand.

The Good Friday Agreement loosened British control in Ulster (6 of 9)

Regulatory Alignment between North and South, independent of England loosens it further.

Bank it now and let demographics and the Scots finish the job

What say you, @Armaghtoffee @Charlie Sweet @Emlynsqueakyvoice at al.

But like you said, the Unionist veto is still well in place to block any progress as it has done for over a century.

Any disruption to the all island economy, as there would be under this arrangement, breaches the GFA so as others have said it's a non-starter.

This is all designed to force the EU into rejecting it and then attempting to pin the blame on them for No Deal if or when that happens.

 

[Khalekan]

But I think this is a crucial point with regards to the viability of this proposal. If existent law can't be changed without agreement, then the customs alignment would remain until there was agreement to change it. Meaning the Irish nationalists could prevent the alignment from changing, but nobody could get rid of the alignment without agreement.

Ah....I see whst you mean

But here’s the thing.

The RA deal will expire on a certain date in 2024......as a default.

A vote would need to be taken to renew it.

Assuming the other parties back it and it gets a majority in Stormont then the DUP move the Petition of Concern and it is vetoed.

That why this deal has no chance of being accepted and that clause was inserted to make sure it wasn’t accepted.

 

[Khalekan]

But like you said, the Unionist veto is still well in place to block any progress as it has done for over a century.

Any disruption to the all island economy, as there would be under this arrangement, breaches the GFA so as others have said it's a non-starter.

This is all designed to force the EU into rejecting it and then attempting to pin the blame on them for No Deal if or when that happens.

I know....I am just musing

The other half of me knows the POC renders it moot.

However....it would be fun if the EU returned the serve and said they might give it consideration if the Stormont Lock was removed

See what Johnson says then.

 

[Dymak]

Ah....I see whst you mean

But here’s the thing.

The RA deal will expire on a certain date in 2024......as a default.

A vote would need to be taken to renew it.

Assuming the other parties back it and it gets a majority in Stormont then the DUP move the Petition of Concern and it is vetoed.

That why this deal has no chance of being accepted and that clause was inserted to make sure it wasn’t accepted.

Fair enough.

I'm not sure I agree with the fact that any divergence between the Republic and the North when it comes to customs should render any deal impossible. Divergence already exists when it comes to law, currency and government. However if divergence when it comes to customs is considered sacrosanct, then the only way Brexit will actually happen is through maintaining a customs union, which would be fine with me. But will probably result in Brexit being binned.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

The state of Northern Ireland doesn't exist? There are only one set of laws on the island of Ireland? Only one currency? One government?

I've spent plenty of time in Armagh, and I know for certain that the border absolutely exists.

We have common ground my friend. Armagh is a strongly Nationalist and Remain county and the prospect of physical customs checks would not be described as reasonable (your words) by many.

As you tell us that you have spent plenty of time in Armagh, and surely must then know the locals, I’m curious as to why you then think this proposed solution is a goer?

 

[Khalekan]

Fair enough.

I'm not sure I agree with the fact that any divergence between the Republic and the North when it comes to customs should render any deal impossible. Divergence already exists when it comes to law, currency and governemt. However if divergence when it comes to customs is considered sacrosanct, then the only way Brexit will actually happen is through maintaining a customs union, which would be fine with me. But will probably result in Brexit being binned.

"Brexit binned" is a headline I look forward to seeing some day soon

 

[Armaghtoffee]

You know Mark, half of me is thinking that this idea should not be dismissed out of hand.

The Good Friday Agreement loosened British control in Ulster (6 of 9)

Regulatory Alignment between North and South, independent of England loosens it further.

Bank it now and let demographics and the Scots finish the job

What say you, @Armaghtoffee @Charlie Sweet @Emlynsqueakyvoice at al.

There are already many established all Ireland links; Electricity, Inlands Waterways, Air Ambulance, Heart surgery etc and I do get your point Khal.

Of course bank everything that Brexit forced upon the DUP but I honestly feel that the everything is up for grabs now if you just go for the whole hog.

 

[Bluerover]

It really didn't disappear 20 years ago. There has always been a border ever since the state of Northern Ireland was created. When you cross the border now you are entering a different country. The laws change. The government changes. The currency changes. Your mobile phone connection changes. It's simply not true to say the border has ever disappeared.

There is a "border" that indicates which EU MS one is in. There is currently no " hard" border and so there is complete freedom of movement of people and goods between the Republic and the 6 Counties without any checks or tariffs.

The consequences of UK leaving the EU without a deal, that might lead to reimposition of such checks and tariffs would be a catastrophic undoing of all of the progress that has been made in terms of peace between the two communities over the past 25 years.

Economically the whole island would suffer.