Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

Well you can only go by who you speak to, and in the north, I know of no farmers who wanted to leave

And that's fair enough mate. Around the Midlands there were almost no Remain banners and all the farmers had Leave posters in their fields. Like the rest of us they were no doubt split.......

 

[peteblue]

He has developed quite the habit of leaving out key details of the articles he quotes and the sources.

Here is a link to the full article and some other important information it contains.

http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/dramatic-brexit-vote-spells-huge-uncertainty-for-uk-agriculture.htm

‘Seismic implications’

Will Gemmill, head of farming at Strutt & Parker, said the vote to leave would have “seismic implications” for UK agriculture and questions remained about the impact on farm profitability.

“If the value of sterling drops, then in the short term we could see improvements in our competitive position which will help exports and push up prices.

“However, over the medium term there are crucial questions about the level of support UK farmers will be paid and on the terms of any trade deals struck with the EU and the rest of the world.”

But former NFU president Peter Kendall, a leading farming voice in the Remain camp, said the result was “hugely disappointing” for the future of the UK.

He added: “We live in a democratic country. The task now is to knuckle down as an industry and work hard to persuade the government of the importance of the farming industry in order to renegotiate agricultural policy to create as many opportunities as possible.”

Brexit ‘seriously bad news’

Former NFU chief economist Sean Rickard warned that a Brexit was “seriously bad news” for British farmers.

“If there’s one group that has really gained from Europe, it’s farmers,” said Dr Rickard, an independent economist to the farming and food industries.

“I don’t think much will change over the next two years, but there will be a great deal of change after that, negotiating the terms of leaving the EU.

“You might be looking at 10 years of uncertainty for UK agriculture and its food producers. The big danger is that some food producers will relocate a lot of their activities to countries like Ireland or Denmark to stay in the single market.

“Uncertainty is the enemy of all investment. All this might make us less competitive.”

That all sounds really good, but yet the poll said different, and no farmer anywhere around us voted to remain, the posters in their fields spelt out their intentions.....I've probably left out a load of stuff that you can post but there's only so much stuff that is actually relevant........

 

[roydo]

And that's fair enough mate. Around the Midlands there were almost no Remain banners and all the farmers had Leave posters in their fields. Like the rest of us they were no doubt split.......

Be funny when them farmers have to field (sic) 2000 visas to get their fruit harvested in a few years time.

 

[peteblue]

Be funny when them farmers have to field (sic) 2000 visas to get their fruit harvested in a few years time.

Or recruit UK people with no jobs.......

 

[roydo]

Or recruit UK people with no jobs.......

Good luck with that.

 

[Rob17896]

Hahaha......give us a break. These people worked for over 45 years to buy their houses, then they give money to their kids and then leave them their houses when they die. In terms of living standards you haven't got a clue what it was like in the 1950's, 60's, 70's and 80's. In terms of pensions, before good old Gordon Brown screwed them up, many had pensions based on paying into their companies and had no pensions black hole. The pension 'black hole' arrived when Brown took out all their money from the pensions and spent it on his pet projects.......

Wow! We may nave agreed on our preference. but is there really any need for this playground vitriol?

Cheer up old chap. Only a joke...sort of

 

[Rob17896]

Actually I despair of selling off our housing to foreign speculators and would love to see levels of punitive taxation as a result. I don't particularly like houses going up in price as if you want to move it just gives a bigger bill and excludes the younger people from the market. I truly hope that the London housing market suffers a collapse and brings a bit of sense back for the benefit of our young.......

Aside from foreign purchasing, Maggies de-regulation of the mortgage market was the worst thing to happen to this country. A population saddled with major debt for somewhere to live, two incomes essential for most and little freedom to choose a job other than what pays most. Having said that we had years of a Labour government that did nothing about it. Meanwhile the lenders rub their hands with glee. Whatever happened to producing something for a living...oh Europe's most succesful economy still does.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Kinda feel like this should have been shouted about before the vote, but an interesting piece on just what EU nationals can and cannot claim (in terms of welfare) when residing in another country

https://theconversation.com/what-the-eus-rules-on-free-movement-allow-all-its-citizens-to-do-62186

The basic jist is that no one can simply turn up to the country without a well paid job (so no zero hours fruit picking jobs) and claim welfare, with that support not offered for five years.

 

[Tramps_mate]

That all sounds really good, but yet the poll said different, and no farmer anywhere around us voted to remain, the posters in their fields spelt out their intentions.....I've probably left out a load of stuff that you can post but there's only so much stuff that is actually relevant........

All the farmers iv met voted out too..

 

[peteblue]

Kinda feel like this should have been shouted about before the vote, but an interesting piece on just what EU nationals can and cannot claim (in terms of welfare) when residing in another country

https://theconversation.com/what-the-eus-rules-on-free-movement-allow-all-its-citizens-to-do-62186

The basic jist is that no one can simply turn up to the country without a well paid job (so no zero hours fruit picking jobs) and claim welfare, with that support not offered for five years.

That well paid job you refer to only has to be over £150 per week. Which is either not a lot of hours, or not a lot of pounds per hour.....no wonder the lower paid UK workers are up in arms .....

 

[1966efc]

I've never met a farmer so I'm going to assume they voted the way I wanted them to and then write pages about it on G O T.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That well paid job you refer to only has to be over £150 per week. Which is either not a lot of hours, or not a lot of pounds per hour.....no wonder the lower paid UK workers are up in arms .....

Of course Pete, but it puts to bed the argument that an unemployed person can come here and sponge off of the welfare system because that simply isn't true. There are also a lot of migrant workers who won't be earning that much, whether they pick fruit or nanny or work in the charity sector as accommodation is often provided as part of the gig, so despite many of those folks being touted as a drain on the welfare system, the rules actually say they aren't eligible for it.

Indeed, it sounds like the rules on this are practically identical regardless of whether the migrant is an EU national or a non-EU national. As an aside, no one commented on it earlier, but the Economist had an interesting look at the 'Australian style points based systems' that was touted by various folks during the campaign (and for yonks prior to it).

http://www.economist.com/news/inter...mmigration-systems-have-concluded-they-do-not

The basic jist of it is that it's been dumped in most places that tried it as it wasn't effective at all. In Australia, for instance, people allowed in because they met the required points were something like five times as likely to be out of work than those let in because they had an explicit job offer (regardless of what kind of job).

I suppose it's inevitable when you assume that a bureaucrat knows more about what skills are needed (and available) than the people actually recruiting.

 

[peteblue]

Of course Pete, but it puts to bed the argument that an unemployed person can come here and sponge off of the welfare system because that simply isn't true. There are also a lot of migrant workers who won't be earning that much, whether they pick fruit or nanny or work in the charity sector as accommodation is often provided as part of the gig, so despite many of those folks being touted as a drain on the welfare system, the rules actually say they aren't eligible for it.

Indeed, it sounds like the rules on this are practically identical regardless of whether the migrant is an EU national or a non-EU national. As an aside, no one commented on it earlier, but the Economist had an interesting look at the 'Australian style points based systems' that was touted by various folks during the campaign (and for yonks prior to it).

http://www.economist.com/news/inter...mmigration-systems-have-concluded-they-do-not

The basic jist of it is that it's been dumped in most places that tried it as it wasn't effective at all. In Australia, for instance, people allowed in because they met the required points were something like five times as likely to be out of work than those let in because they had an explicit job offer (regardless of what kind of job).

I suppose it's inevitable when you assume that a bureaucrat knows more about what skills are needed (and available) than the people actually recruiting.

I agree with you about the welfare. I don't believe that people who genuinely come to work here do so with the intent of then taking advantage of our benefits system. They come to work and either stay or to send money back to their families. I have no problem with any of this providing it doesn't undermine UK workers rights.

I also agree that the recruiters are much better placed than anyone in government to decide upon skills required, again, provided that it does not undermine the UK worker or attempt to drive down employment rights.......

It does seem to me however that the UK worker is working against the odds. Many European peoples speak English as a second language, but very few UK workers are fluent in another European language and so it feels that there is no reciprocity in terms of worker movement.....

 

[atrottel]

The basic jist is that no one can simply turn up to the country without a well paid job (so no zero hours fruit picking jobs) and claim welfare, with that support not offered for five years.

Neither can British citizens who have been out of the country for three months or more, despite the fact that they may have fully-paid NI contributions. They have to satisfy a 'habitual residence test' the same way as EU residents now have to and then wait for three months after a successful decision. The only difference is that British citizens have the automatic right to reside (but not to claim means-tested benefits) in the UK.

 

[bring back the catt]

Cheer up old chap. Only a joke...sort of

Apologies Rob. No excuse, other than I had a sense of humour by-pass yesterday.