Current Affairs EU In or Out

[RichardP]

Being part of the EU was huge part of the Scottish independence referendum, weeks were spent discussing whether or not Scotland could remain in the EU while leaving UK...

I think the problem for Scotland wrt to independence and brexit is that no solution really works for them.

Once brexit happens, if Scotland leaves UK and if it applies to join EU as an independent nation it is highly unlikely to meet the acceptance criteria.It could not assume it would keep the £ as its currency, it would lose all financial assistance from what remained of UK and would likely face major economic hardship. And the SNP are currently so independent centric that they have taken their eyes off the day job and Scotland is facing difficulties with education, public services etc.

The other thing to consider is that, thanks to EU, Scotland has lost almost all of its fishing industry and brexit is about to get it back for them. An independent Scotland would have to lose that before it really ever got it back if it wanted to join EU.

And then, of course, we would have another border issue.

0150 here so off to bed. No doubt, to be continued.

 

[summerisle]

Hopefully out on patrol, where they belong, and not in their stations, wherever they may be!

Couldn't read that article (paywall), only the headline. Which cities have no police station!!?

These :

Entire cities left without police stations as hundreds close following funding cuts

Britain's largest force 'has sold the Crown Jewels and run out of things to sell'

www.independent.co.uk

Entire cities left without police stations as hundreds close following funding cuts

A boarded-up police station: hundreds of communities are left without a base for officers ( Getty )

More than 600 police stations have closed in the last eight years, new figures reveal, leaving scores of towns and cities without a “visible reassurance” for the public.

Budget cuts have led some forces to sell off at least half of their local stations in the largest programme of closures in policing history.

In other cases, even where a station remains, the front counters have been closed so people can no longer walk in and speak to officers in person.

Cities such as Bath, which is home to 89,000 people, and St Albans, where the population is 140,000, no longer have a dedicated station. In St Albans, where the police station closed in 2015, residents are directed to a “free telephone to police control room” outside the council offices.

Gloucestershire Police have closed 21 out of 28 stations, and in the Thames Valley region 24 of 60 stations have been lost, Freedom of Information figures obtained by the Sunday Times showed.
It comes as Scotland Yard admitted it has "run out of things to sell" after more than £1bn worth of property was sold off over the past six years.

The Metropolitan Police, Britain's largest force, has had to make £600m of savings since 2010 and despite selling off dozens of stations and residential blocks, the force says funding cuts are still leading them to "breaking point".

"We've sold the Crown Jewels, so to speak. We've run out of things to sell. This is really, really, worrying for society," said Ken Marsh, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation.
The Police Federation, which represents 100,000 rank-and-file officers, said the mass closures had removed a “visible reassurance” for the public.
In Lancashire, 11 front counters have closed this year.

West Midlands police chiefs plan to shut 24 stations in six years to save £5m a year in running costs, prompting protests and petitions.
Thames Valley Police said that losing stations had little impact as laptops and phones meant the office “can be anywhere”.

The latest official crime figures, from March this year, show a fall in overall levels of crime, although there was a rise in offences where knives or other sharp instruments were used - the highest level since 2011.

The Home Office said: “The nature of crime is changing. That’s why we provided a strong and comprehensive settlement that is increasing total investment in the police system by over £460m in 2018-19.”

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

That is where we differ. I am firmly of the opinion that we should help those genuinely in need but that such help should be provided by a UN standing Army for security and a UN infrastructure with sufficient manpower and huge facilities (mobile hospitals, engineers, construction workets, police, etc) to assist. That way, no country is overrun with refugees or migrants, many of whom struggle or choose not to assimmilate and we can then concentrate on fixing their problems in situ.

A big undertaking but when you look at the cost of welfare, housing, negative impact on law order, economy etc, a price worth paying.

Sadly, I can't see it happening anytime soon but it is the long term solution.

No sad, simply not going to happen with the UN, as it stands now and there would have to be huge political and economic change, which normally ends being accused of being Mob momentum antisemite blah blah blah.

Still not on the onus of individual countries to manage their borders on our say so.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I think the problem for Scotland wrt to independence and brexit is that no solution really works for them.

Once brexit happens, if Scotland leaves UK and if it applies to join EU as an independent nation it is highly unlikely to meet the acceptance criteria.It could not assume it would keep the £ as its currency, it would lose all financial assistance from what remained of UK and would likely face major economic hardship. And the SNP are currently so independent centric that they have taken their eyes off the day job and Scotland is facing difficulties with education, public services etc.

The other thing to consider is that, thanks to EU, Scotland has lost almost all of its fishing industry and brexit is about to get it back for them. An independent Scotland would have to lose that before it really ever got it back if it wanted to join EU.

And then, of course, we would have another border issue.

Any update on those refugee figures Rich?

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

Thanks for the well considered and thought out reply.

I don't see how we can solve multiple problems at the same time and I don't profess to be an expert but brexit is the subject at hand and I think it needs resolving first.

Subsequently, I believe in the right to self determination so if the people of Northern Ireland want a vote on union with Ireland or to become independent in their own right or to remain in UK, and vote yes to union with Ireland, and if Ireland has a separate vote (in the event of a yes to join Ireland vote in the north) to decide if it wants union with the north then I think that has to be respected.

We have already had such a vote in Scotland and, despite the hissy fits of the SNP, Scotland voted to remain as part of UK.

Obeying orders without question is a matter of judgement. Time being the main player. If there is time to consider, question and possibly challenge, then it has been done. When the missiles are in the air and you hear 'hard left, NOW' that would not be a good time to start a conversation on the subject.

My connections with Liverpool are tenuous. I grew up in Lincolnshire but my best friend was (and still is) a rabid Evertonian. I was therefore 'converted' at a very early age and have followed Everton for almost 50 years now.

Having spent the last 23 years working outside UK it is not easy to get to Goodison and I watch most games on tv.

I lived in Brunei from 1996-2005 and got to know Mick Lyons reasonably well when he was manager of the Brunei national team. What a guy.

Nice to have a civil conversation even if our views may be different. That is usually the way to an amicable solution.

I appreciate civil conversation, and understand the reason why you did not question orders in the military. However, I do think that this spills into civilian life, and particularly when people like me question the likes of the queen and her lecherous existence. I'm amused by it more than anything.
Regarding your comments about a vote in six of Ulster's counties, I'm not sure you have understood what I have previously written, particularly in respect of your 'datum'. My datum is the beginning of the current conflict in Ireland, ie before the illegal annexation of the North Eastern portion of the island. I would have no problem with an all Ireland vote on the subject, but a vote conducted in the six county format that you propose is not acceptable.
Away from that, and regarding our Everton credentials, I welcome any blue at any point, regardless of nationality, colour etc etc. Having said that, you as a blue for 50 years must have a degree of sympathy, politics aside, for our (scouse) view of Johnson as being extremely wary of a lying, misinformed, lazy laughing stock of a man. How do you trust him? If your other mate Corbyn had anything like that kind of form then your mates in the Telegraph, Times, etc etc would have crucified him by now. That's why I call them hypocrites. If you and them are prepared to go in hard on Jezza now when he's nowhere near power, what would you be like if he ascended (if that's the real word these days given the clowns in there now) to number 10? I hope you apply the same standards to Johnson that you do to Corbyn now.
Lyons is a lovely man. If I ever meet you I'll tell you a boss story about him. Bigger Everton man than all these phoneys nowadays. Born a blue, lives as a blue.

 

[RichardP]

I appreciate civil conversation, and understand the reason why you did not question orders in the military. However, I do think that this spills into civilian life, and particularly when people like me question the likes of the queen and her lecherous existence. I'm amused by it more than anything.
Regarding your comments about a vote in six of Ulster's counties, I'm not sure you have understood what I have previously written, particularly in respect of your 'datum'. My datum is the beginning of the current conflict in Ireland, ie before the illegal annexation of the North Eastern portion of the island. I would have no problem with an all Ireland vote on the subject, but a vote conducted in the six county format that you propose is not acceptable.
Away from that, and regarding our Everton credentials, I welcome any blue at any point, regardless of nationality, colour etc etc. Having said that, you as a blue for 50 years must have a degree of sympathy, politics aside, for our (scouse) view of Johnson as being extremely wary of a lying, misinformed, lazy laughing stock of a man. How do you trust him? If your other mate Corbyn had anything like that kind of form then your mates in the Telegraph, Times, etc etc would have crucified him by now. That's why I call them hypocrites. If you and them are prepared to go in hard on Jezza now when he's nowhere near power, what would you be like if he ascended (if that's the real word these days given the clowns in there now) to number 10? I hope you apply the same standards to Johnson that you do to Corbyn now.
Lyons is a lovely man. If I ever meet you I'll tell you a boss story about him. Bigger Everton man than all these phoneys nowadays. Born a blue, lives as a blue.

Your datum may well be different to other people's datums and if we can't agree to accept the right to self determination then we will never get anywhere. Rightly or wrongly, we are where we are, and Ulster is currently part of UK. Any change in the future status of Ulster can only be determined by the people of Ulster.

Otherwise we could insist that the people of all UK can vote on an independent Scotland. We cant have it both ways.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Your datum may well be different to other people's datums and if we can't agree to accept the right to self determination then we will never get anywhere. Rightly or wrongly, we are where we are, and Ulster is currently part of UK. Any change in the future status of Ulster can only be determined by the people of Ulster.

Otherwise we could insist that the people of all UK can vote on an independent Scotland. We cant have it both ways.

Great. The votes from Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan should ensure the end of partition then.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

Great. The votes from Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan should ensure the end of partition then.

You beat me to it! Why do these people not get it?

 

[Jebus_lives]

Great. The votes from Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan should ensure the end of partition then.

I fully expect those constituencies that voted remain will be given the same right of self determination. It's only right.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

Your datum may well be different to other people's datums and if we can't agree to accept the right to self determination then we will never get anywhere. Rightly or wrongly, we are where we are, and Ulster is currently part of UK. Any change in the future status of Ulster can only be determined by the people of Ulster.

Otherwise we could insist that the people of all UK can vote on an independent Scotland. We cant have it both ways.

You don't get it do you? Ulster is not just the British occupied bit. I can't be bothered now, read it up. If you want to learn you'll learn. If you don't it's your problem.
I tried.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

I appreciate civil conversation, and understand the reason why you did not question orders in the military. However, I do think that this spills into civilian life, and particularly when people like me question the likes of the queen and her lecherous existence. I'm amused by it more than anything.
Regarding your comments about a vote in six of Ulster's counties, I'm not sure you have understood what I have previously written, particularly in respect of your 'datum'. My datum is the beginning of the current conflict in Ireland, ie before the illegal annexation of the North Eastern portion of the island. I would have no problem with an all Ireland vote on the subject, but a vote conducted in the six county format that you propose is not acceptable.
Away from that, and regarding our Everton credentials, I welcome any blue at any point, regardless of nationality, colour etc etc. Having said that, you as a blue for 50 years must have a degree of sympathy, politics aside, for our (scouse) view of Johnson as being extremely wary of a lying, misinformed, lazy laughing stock of a man. How do you trust him? If your other mate Corbyn had anything like that kind of form then your mates in the Telegraph, Times, etc etc would have crucified him by now. That's why I call them hypocrites. If you and them are prepared to go in hard on Jezza now when he's nowhere near power, what would you be like if he ascended (if that's the real word these days given the clowns in there now) to number 10? I hope you apply the same standards to Johnson that you do to Corbyn now.
Lyons is a lovely man. If I ever meet you I'll tell you a boss story about him. Bigger Everton man than all these phoneys nowadays. Born a blue, lives as a blue.

Shockingly, you have omitted to answer my question in paragraph 3. I'm sure it was a complete oversight so I look forward to same.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I think the problem for Scotland wrt to independence and brexit is that no solution really works for them.

Once brexit happens, if Scotland leaves UK and if it applies to join EU as an independent nation it is highly unlikely to meet the acceptance criteria.It could not assume it would keep the £ as its currency, it would lose all financial assistance from what remained of UK and would likely face major economic hardship. And the SNP are currently so independent centric that they have taken their eyes off the day job and Scotland is facing difficulties with education, public services etc.

The other thing to consider is that, thanks to EU, Scotland has lost almost all of its fishing industry and brexit is about to get it back for them. An independent Scotland would have to lose that before it really ever got it back if it wanted to join EU.

And then, of course, we would have another border issue.

0150 here so off to bed. No doubt, to be continued.

It a little unfair to call out SNP as moaning, when a key argument in keeping the Union together in the Scottish independence referendum was to maintain their EU membership, it's patently untrue...

 

[Xizor]

Exactly as intended. You know there are communities now that rent private police?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/...r-success-in-londons-wealthiest-a3832321.html

This is the Brexit-loving libertarian vision of Rees-Mogg and co - why should he pay taxes to keep you secure when he can just club together with his mates for a gang of thugs to keep their own land safe*? Austerity has been a massive con job to start the process that Brexit-driven national bankruptcy will complete.

* You too can feel safe by giving a huge monthly payment to Rees-Mogg security services. In fact why not just work on his estate?

 

[Xizor]

datums

Data is the plural of datum you comprehensive thicko. Do they let you handle scissors in your fancy jet-setting career? Or are you aiming straight for a bundle of wooden rods with an axe head?

 

[Charlie Sweet]

There are 3 issues here,

Quality, Reliability and Security.

In time of tension there are very few countries on whom we could rely to continue to provide us with high quality kit, reliably and securely. USA we can rely on, along with Australia, NZ, Canada but I struggle after that.

Just imagine if the Falklands became an issue again and the Spanish refused to supply us with steel as they supported Argentina. Not looking to open a second discussion on Falklands here, just using it as a real life example.

There are certain industries which really should remain domestic. What those industries might be is open to debate of course but I would suggest that steel should be right up towards the top of the list.

Good luck going to Trump when in need of his help. He would screw the UK for every possible advantage.

You also cling on to this white centric commonwealth idea. It will be interesting to see how long those ties last.

To be fair to BoJo, he has already pumped £ billions into NHS and is recruiting 20000 police officers. A small start I grant you but more than May ever did.

Stop calling him BoJo. You're being played by the Tory press and its embarrassing to see that on an Everton forum.

I am not sure. Shortly before Hammond had his hissy fit and jumped before he was pushed, he did say that austerity was coming to an end. And that statement was long overdue.

I certainly take the point that BJ is also in full on election mode and agree that an election is likely quite soon - early 2020 would be my guess.

I suppose BJ's argument would be that we now have £39 billion to spend.

You realise we dont just "have €39 billion"?!? Its what we put in to get more back from the EU. So we are going to be poorer as a result not richer to the tune of alleged €39 billion saving.

For God's sake it's the £350m bus lie all over again.