Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Methuselah]

So just another dishonest Leaver who ducks behind the 'hypothetical' sofa to squirm away from the "having to be honest that they didn't know what they voted for" Daleks. As you can't answer without giving yourself away, let me fill in your blanks - you either would have voted for it as the Leave option, in which case you're a hypocrite of the highest order, or you wouldn't have voted for it, in which case you accept that there are multiple outcomes of Brexit and you didn't know what you were voting for, so you're lying now.

Hypocrite or liar, the choice is yours. Chalk another one up on the board. They're falling like flies!

I don't think I have ever read as stupid a post as this.

 

[orchard]

I don't think I have ever read as stupid a post as this.

F- Must try harder

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

We voted as a United Kingdom and the decision therefore affects the United Kingdom. If you want to get on your own personal soap box further down the track and campaign for whatever else floats your boat then fair enough. But this thread is about the UK exiting the EU. YOU are in the wrong thread for any other subject.

Deflection and personalised comments as per usual because you can't answer the questions put to you. What other subject ? My comment was about the referendum result and this is the appropriate thread. Poor attempt at avoidance.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

Precisely!

I would word it slightly differently. I would say you don't have to like it but if you believe in democracy you have to respect and accept this once in a lifetime vote.

I fully accept the vote, but my take is that only a properly thought out exit is acceptable. I don't care how long that takes, but a reckless No Deal would seriously damage this country in terms of ability to trade, and make us even more of a laughing stock than we already are. We must accept that the Irish problem is the logjam. There is only one solution to this problem. It is a fact that Britain and unionist Ulster have ignored as much as they could since 1921. Like it or not a uniited and fully independent Ireland is the only way that Britain could exit Europe. Anything else is a fudge. I know that this is unworkable in the short term but that is, in my view, the best way forward.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

So, do you respect democracy and the referendum result or not? Nobody in the Remain camp seems to want to answer that question. It really is quite simple.

I do believe in democracy. Absolutely.

I am very concerned that the Leave side broke election law. That can jeopardise democracy - agree?

You appear to be a straight binary kind of guy. Leave means leave etc. I dont see how you square that position with conjecture and speculation on what additional "stuff" went alongside the Yes/No to leave the EU. In law the matter is simple in black and white.

How do you pick and choose what was said in the background to the referendum vote? All manner of things were discussed and promised.

You are right that the government said a partial in/out was problematic (because it is).

Do you remember anyone saying the UK would have to pay €39 billion? I dont. But its accepted as fact now.

Do you remember huge warnings about the Northern Ireland peace process? From my personal background I knew it would be a disaster but, in terms of general media, the warnings of Blair and Major were given scant attention.

Do you remember Fox and others saying it would be a walk in the park signing trade deals immediately? That's turned out well.

Lastly I do believe in democracy - a parliamentary democracy. That is the foundation of the UK. If parliament gets to deadlock and votes for another referendum or to revoke A50 then thats it. Do you agree? Or are you not given to giving back control to Westminster after all?

 

[RichardP]

I do believe in democracy. Absolutely.

I am very concerned that the Leave side broke election law. That can jeopardise democracy - agree?

Both sides were guilty of the usual election exagerations. Osborne and project fear etc. The British people are smarter than you appear to want to give them credit for.

You appear to be a straight binary kind of guy. Leave means leave etc. I dont see how you square that position with conjecture and speculation on what additional "stuff" went alongside the Yes/No to leave the EU. In law the matter is simple in black and white.

I can accept shades of gray but brexit is like being pregnant. You can't be a little bit pregnany. Either you are or you are not. Same with brexit.

How do you pick and choose what was said in the background to the referendum vote? All manner of things were discussed and promised.

You are right that the government said a partial in/out was problematic (because it is).

Thank you. So, a full Leave is the best option. Glad we agree on that.

Do you remember anyone saying the UK would have to pay €39 billion? I dont. But its accepted as fact now.

No, it's not actually. Nothing has been agreed. Absolutely nothing.

Do you remember huge warnings about the Northern Ireland peace process? From my personal background I knew it would be a disaster but, in terms of general media, the warnings of Blair and Major were given scant attention.

There will be issues but they have been blown out of all proportion by people with a secondary agenda. There are no issues that cannot be solved with a modicum of goodwill.

Do you remember Fox and others saying it would be a walk in the park signing trade deals immediately? That's turned out well.

I am not sure about a walk in the park but many countries (not least USA) have indicated they are very keen to sign post brexit trade deals with UK.

Lastly I do believe in democracy - a parliamentary democracy. That is the foundation of the UK. If parliament gets to deadlock and votes for another referendum or to revoke A50 then thats it. Do you agree? Or are you not given to giving back control to Westminster after all?

I agree with your Parliamentary democracy statement - execept that in this case Parliament outsourced the decision making to the British people and gave a solemn undertaking to enact the result of this once in a lifetime regerendum

Ripostes below each point you raise.

 

[RichardP]

I fully accept the vote, but my take is that only a properly thought out exit is acceptable. I don't care how long that takes, but a reckless No Deal would seriously damage this country in terms of ability to trade, and make us even more of a laughing stock than we already are. We must accept that the Irish problem is the logjam. There is only one solution to this problem. It is a fact that Britain and unionist Ulster have ignored as much as they could since 1921. Like it or not a uniited and fully independent Ireland is the only way that Britain could exit Europe. Anything else is a fudge. I know that this is unworkable in the short term but that is, in my view, the best way forward.

May and her fellow Remainers have wasted 3 years. We must leave at the end of Oct or we risk becoming trapped by aspects of the Lisbon treaty.

Even Merkel acknowledges that we can reach a deal in less than 30 days.

There will be last minute proposals from both sides that have already been prepared. I am sure of that.

 

[RichardP]

Deflection and personalised comments as per usual because you can't answer the questions put to you. What other subject ? My comment was about the referendum result and this is the appropriate thread. Poor attempt at avoidance.

No, your reply was a non too subtle way to talk about breaking up the UK. We are a United Kingdom and will stay that way I think.

 

[RichardP]

I fully accept the vote, but my take is that only a properly thought out exit is acceptable. I don't care how long that takes, but a reckless No Deal would seriously damage this country in terms of ability to trade, and make us even more of a laughing stock than we already are. We must accept that the Irish problem is the logjam. There is only one solution to this problem. It is a fact that Britain and unionist Ulster have ignored as much as they could since 1921. Like it or not a uniited and fully independent Ireland is the only way that Britain could exit Europe. Anything else is a fudge. I know that this is unworkable in the short term but that is, in my view, the best way forward.

If that is what the people want then I would not like it but would not argue against it. Its called democracy. I wish others would adopt the same democratic respect for brexit. But one thing at a time.

How about an agreement with EU/Ireland that removes the backstop on condition that within 2 years a binding referendum is conducted in Northern Ireland to determine if they wish to unite with Ireland. If they do, fine. If not, it has given us 2 years to find a border solution.

 

[RichardP]

I don't think I have ever read as stupid a post as this.

I know. I just couldn't even be bothered to respond to it. It says far more about the author than anything I could waste bandwidth on.

 

[Cool_Blue]

Speaking of ports. They were saying on the news that most of the waste from the south gets shipped to Sweden and the Netherlands for processing, which if that gets disrupted would mean it being trucked up north for landfill.

Can we add our players to it?

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

No, your reply was a non too subtle way to talk about breaking up the UK. We are a United Kingdom and will stay that way I think.

The only way the United Kingdom stays together as it is now, is by remaining in the EU.

 

[RichardP]

The only way the United Kingdom stays together as it is now, is by remaining in the EU.

Well, that is where we disagree.

There are other solutions. There is a strong and growing IREXIT movement for starters!

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Well, that is where we disagree.

There are other solutions. There is a strong and growing IREXIT movement for starters!

Don't underestimate the disconnect that England has with some parts of the Kingdom. Scotland and increasingly Wales are very different now to 15years ago, some of changes that have come through their devolutions are irreversible and will continue to move away from England.

Would you! It was perhaps the lesser of the 2 evils but is a hypothetical question which is therefore irrelevant.

More importantly, neither Remain nor May's deal complied with the Leave decision made by the people so your question has no merit.

A very broad generalising statement, and very easy to disprove, it's a bit silly to be fair.

 

[RichardP]

Don't underestimate the disconnect that England has with some parts of the Kingdom. Scotland and increasingly Wales are very different now to 15years ago, some of changes that have come through their devolutions are irreversible and will continue to move away from England.



A very broad generalising statement, and very easy to disprove, it's a bit silly to be fair.

No argument with your first para but care to explain and justify your secoond?