The binman chronicles
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It already gets filled in with crap every other weekend.
Current Affairs EU In or Out
- Thread starter micknick
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It already gets filled in with crap every other weekend.
RichardP
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Bitter Remainer Guys (and girls), you either believe in democracy or you don't.
The UK government called the referendum and stated in advance that it was a once in a lifetime decision and that the government would implement what we, the people, decided.
We decided by a democratic majority to Leave EU.
We were also well informed, in advance, that leaving EU meant leaving the Customs Union, Common Fisheries Policy, everything.
What don't you understand about that?
Or do you only like democracy when you win?
We knew exactly what we were voting for. We won the vote and BoJo will deliver it.
It really is that simple.
The UK government called the referendum and stated in advance that it was a once in a lifetime decision and that the government would implement what we, the people, decided.
We decided by a democratic majority to Leave EU.
We were also well informed, in advance, that leaving EU meant leaving the Customs Union, Common Fisheries Policy, everything.
What don't you understand about that?
Or do you only like democracy when you win?
We knew exactly what we were voting for. We won the vote and BoJo will deliver it.
It really is that simple.
You didn't even know what was voted for in the 70s so I kinda doubt that.
larrygobfiend
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I'm not sure if I believe in democracy anymore to be honest. I don't think it's a level playing field.
Charlie Sweet
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Survive and thrive.....must have faith.....
On what basis though? Where's the evidence to support the idea things will be great post Brexit.
Time.and time.again those advocating Remain ask for evidence from the Leave side to support a view and its laughed off and dismissed.
Charlie Sweet
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Is it not a bit weird to quote the other side when asked to look back for evidence? The Leave side of the referendum debate said we could have our cake and eat it yet you're referring to the statements made by Remainers - who at the time were decried as scaremongering
The binman chronicles
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Not bitter, angry. Angry that a load of people are gullible to fall for something so open ended it isn't real.
All we hear are personal beliefs, I think brexit is going to be a success because it is. We'll be better off and be able to do some unquantifiable thing when out.
Even on here you would hope that one of you might have come up with a sound argument why it is better for the UK to leave. But no, nada. Just gone from the german car industry will ensure there is a good deal, to we'll get concessions, to BoJo the clown will sort it, to no deal is what we wanted in the first place and if it hurts so what.
To boot just look at the characters promoting brexit:
Bojo
Farage
JRM
The ERG Ltd
UKIP
BNP
Donald J Trump
Putin
Does that give you any indication with the company you are keeping? You've swallowed lies and this will be a shhstorm if it goes ahead with a no deal that will last for years.
RichardP
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Well, at least you are honest. I'll give you that much. If Parliament respected democracy we would probably already be out with May's abject surrender deal so it has kind of back fired on those that tried various dirty tricks (Letwin, Cooper et al) to try to subvert democracy.
Now that BoJo is PM there is not a lot more that the bitter Remainers in Parliament can do. Even a successful vote of no confidence (possible but unlikely) would not happen in time to prevent a WTO exit 31/10/19.
Far better (though unlikely) for the country to come together and get a negotiated deal (which can be done in less than 30 days according to Merkel and others) but a WTO exit is just fine too.
Merkel is already showing signs of realisation that a WTO deal for UK would hurt Germany tremendously. I am sure she wants EU to renegotiate but, in typical Merkel fashion, is treading carefully and hedging her bets.
The next two months will be interesting and, if I was a betting man, I would bet on an 11th hour deal being put forward which BoJo may or may not decide to take to Parliament for ratification. If the deal is satisfactory, fine. If it is not, then WTO is also fine.
Either way we extract ourselves from political union with EU which is the main object of the exercise.
RichardP
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I could turn that argument right back at you and ask you if you are now criticising comments made by the people whose position Remainers profess to support!
It then just becomes an exercise in semantics and does nothing for the debate.
The fact of the matter is that the UK Prime Minister made those comments, repeatedly and publicly and there is absolutely no way that anyone can say that we did not know what we were voting for. We did know, we won the vote and we will have it delivered.
Emlynsqueakyvoice
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Ah, the old @Joey66 defence; you lost, get over it.......
RichardP
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But you just display your refusal to respect democracy. We didn't fall for anything.
We knew what we voted for.
We won the vote.
We will have it delivered.
It really is that simple and to adopt the rather arrogant and condescending attitude that Leavers didn't know what they voted for is both inaccurate and an attempted abuse of the democratic process.
RichardP
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Precisely!
I would word it slightly differently. I would say you don't have to like it but if you believe in democracy you have to respect and accept this once in a lifetime vote.
RichardP
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Bruce, do you believe in democracy?
I remember Cameron saying that. Funny thing though - David Cameron, when PM, could only promise things on behalf of members of his government. He was never in a position to promise things on behalf of MPs of other parties, or even non-ministerial Tories (and even ministers can resign to adopt a position against the government's).
In addition, that government no longer exists, as it was replaced in 2017.
So what you're talking about, in terms of how it relates to our specific democratic process (as opposed to the general theme of democracy, which Leavers keep appealing to) is both largely worthless and obsolete.
What I don't understand about it is why you think it's true? The very nature of what Brexit would be was kept purposefully vague by the Leave campaigns so everyone could hook their own fantasy vision of Brexit onto the single 'Leave' word. There were explicit soundbites by prominent leavers that we could retain the benefits of the Single Market, Customs Union etc.
I like (our) democracy when it works according to established parliamentary principles. I don't like it when a 'one off irreversible' vote is promised and one side lies continuousy, overspends, and then after winning narrowly demand that no further diligence of the situation is required.
Nope. You specifically knew why you voted. You had no idea what you were voting for. And, as I said to Joey (I think), you simply can't speak for all the other Leave voters anyway.
The binman chronicles
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Who said I refused to accept democracy? I'm not chained to a railing somewhere nor I'm a organising fight back meetings to block the wheels of government. What happens happens but I'm perfectly entitled to my views and I can post them here as they are applicable.
Ps you don't know what you voted for because even now you don't know what you are going to get. You could get a variant of May's deal which you have said today was not what you wanted. So there is ambiguity. I would respect brexiteers more if they flat out said they are xenophobic and want to close the borders and they aren't bothered at what the cost is to do this. They'd be wrong as there will still be a similar amount of migration but least it would be a goal of some sort.
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