Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
Status
Not open for further replies.
Xizor said:
Well Pete, like most things it's more nuanced that you are seemingly able to understand. You seem to read the question as 'people didn't know why they voted Leave'. But that's not how I read it.

You see, 'Leave' isn't one thing. Leave and do what? Leave and join EFTA to retain the economic security of the Bloc? Leave with no thought for the consequences to the rest of the country because "I'm alright Jack"? Leave and immediately deport anyone whose grandparents weren't born here? Leave and declare war on France to recapture Calais? No matter how self-righteously assured you feel in the reasons for your own vote, you don't actually speak for all 17m Leave voters.

So, like the recent Pie video posited, you could take 1000 Leave voters and ask them for their deep-seated reason to Leave and where they want to end up, and come up with 1000 different answers. Now, whatever position the government took, it can't satisfy all of these different opinions, many of which would be mutually exclusive. Therefore saying 'people didn't know what they were voting for' is correct, in that people dididn't know how the process of a Leave vote would play out and how the targeted endpoint matched their expectation.
Click to expand...

Well if we are talking about nuance, the comment you quoted was in response to a comment regarding the understanding of SF voters.

However, taking the comment in isolation, your ‘understanding’ of leave seems only to cover rejoining part of it or taking extreme actions regarding Europeans, when in fact it was nothing of the sort. I not only agree that I don’t speak for the 17.4M leave voters, but have categorically stated so many times within this thread.

You correctly point out that Leave means different things to different leave voters, yet somehow ignore that Remain meant differing things for each remain voter. Remain and become part of an EU Army, remain and eventually join the Euro...where does it end.......
 
peteblue said:
View attachment 65015

I quite liked this in the telegraph....

Imagine being on an aircraft coming in to land when the captain and her co-pilot abort touchdown at the last minute. Then imagine them aborting it again shortly afterwards.

Mercifully, there is another crew on board. So the captain is carted off, the co-pilot also removed and the new team in the cockpit calm the passengers by making an unequivocal promise that this time they will land. From first class to steerage, the passengers feel their stress levels subside thanks to the new pilot’s obvious assurance.

Suddenly the former co-pilot stands up and shouts: “You are doing it wrong, give me back the controls!”........Hammond
Click to expand...

Shame this really doesn't hold up as an analogy.
 
peteblue said:
Well if we are talking about nuance, the comment you quoted was in response to a comment regarding the understanding of SF voters.

However, taking the comment in isolation, your ‘understanding’ of leave seems only to cover rejoining part of it or taking extreme actions regarding Europeans, when in fact it was nothing of the sort. I not only agree that I don’t speak for the 17.4M leave voters, but have categorically stated so many times within this thread.

You correctly point out that Leave means different things to different leave voters, yet somehow ignore that Remain meant differing things for each remain voter. Remain and become part of an EU Army, remain and eventually join the Euro...where does it end.......
Click to expand...
Nope, remain meant remain. Keep as we are, maybe potentially look at changing our membership later if there was a push for it. Leave was asking for a monumental change but not exactly what the change was. Don't try and suggest they are remotely similar.
 
peteblue said:
Of course I know why, don’t be silly.....
Click to expand...
Explain it to me then. And while you're at it, if you can explain that you understand SF's stance regarding abstention from the British Parliament, can you also explain why you chose not to explain this in your initial snide remark about SF? Detail is everything, as your idiot PM said to Andrew Neil before having has backside served to him......
 
peteblue said:
View attachment 65015

I quite liked this in the telegraph....

Imagine being on an aircraft coming in to land when the captain and her co-pilot abort touchdown at the last minute. Then imagine them aborting it again shortly afterwards.

Mercifully, there is another crew on board. So the captain is carted off, the co-pilot also removed and the new team in the cockpit calm the passengers by making an unequivocal promise that this time they will land. From first class to steerage, the passengers feel their stress levels subside thanks to the new pilot’s obvious assurance.

Suddenly the former co-pilot stands up and shouts: “You are doing it wrong, give me back the controls!”........Hammond
Click to expand...
problem is that most of the passengers didn't buy tickets to the airport where the new crew want to land.
 
lol




EB7j_GrWkAIyk0Z
 
Christ, it's the Brexit Bimbo Barbie twin pack.

Those two get bussed in to every Leave and UKIP (and maybe BP?) event to stand in the foreground looking attractive for some reason. First time I've heard them speak about anything and it's not exactly inspiring rhetoric.
 
Xizor said:
Christ, it's the Brexit Bimbo Barbie twin pack.

Those two get bussed in to every Leave and UKIP (and maybe BP?) event to stand in the foreground looking attractive for some reason. First time I've heard them speak about anything and it's not exactly inspiring rhetoric.
Click to expand...
Loved the bit about the 'masses', why not just call us the lumpen proletariat.
 
Xizor said:
Well Pete, like most things it's more nuanced that you are seemingly able to understand. You seem to read the question as 'people didn't know why they voted Leave'. But that's not how I read it.

You see, 'Leave' isn't one thing. Leave and do what? Leave and join EFTA to retain the economic security of the Bloc? Leave with no thought for the consequences to the rest of the country because "I'm alright Jack"? Leave and immediately deport anyone whose grandparents weren't born here? Leave and declare war on France to recapture Calais? No matter how self-righteously assured you feel in the reasons for your own vote, you don't actually speak for all 17m Leave voters.

So, like the recent Pie video posited, you could take 1000 Leave voters and ask them for their deep-seated reason to Leave and where they want to end up, and come up with 1000 different answers. Now, whatever position the government took, it can't satisfy all of these different opinions, many of which would be mutually exclusive. Therefore saying 'people didn't know what they were voting for' is correct, in that people dididn't know how the process of a Leave vote would play out and how the targeted endpoint matched their expectation.
Click to expand...
Yes, there may be multiple reasons why people voted leave (I think 1,000 is a slight exaggeration) but there is a common denominator - a wish to leave the EU.
 
Methuselah said:
Yes, there may be multiple reasons why people voted leave (I think 1,000 is a slight exaggeration) but there is a common denominator - a wish to leave the EU.
Click to expand...

Surely the two are codependent? Especially when some of the more common reasons cited can be obliterated as fantasy land/plain wrong in a few sentences.
 
roydo said:
Surely the two are codependent? Especially when some of the more common reasons cited can be obliterated as fantasy land/plain wrong in a few sentences.
Click to expand...
Roydo, I was going to post that there were also multiple reasons for people voting remain. Then I remembered that absolutely no one knows what they were voting remain for, as no one has a clue what goes on behind closed doors in Brussels. At least leavers had 1,000 reasons to vote leave. lol
 
Methuselah said:
Roydo, I was going to post that there were also multiple reasons for people voting remain. Then I remembered that absolutely no one knows what they were voting remain for, as no one has a clue what goes on behind closed doors in Brussels. At least leavers had 1,000 reasons to vote leave. lol
Click to expand...

Haha! True dat.

I am on record that the reason I voted to stay was cos I didnt have a clue what leaving actually meant, and I didnt believe a word that Farage etc spouted.

I aint that fond of the EU, but I balanced the economic certainty, (as best you can ever have that), against the fantasy land pedalled.

Hope I am wrong.
 
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