Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Rob17896]

As night follows day, the UK remains in the EU. The establishment are trying to ride roughshod over the 'will of the people' and Farage hasn't the bottle to stay and fight for his 'goal' of see the UK out of the EU. Bottler.

He has gone because like the rest of the liars that led the out campaign they have not got a clue what to do next. Cameron resigning has exposed the whole charade. In the meantime life will certainly not improve for the people who voted out because they need some change, security and assistance.
The scum who don't want regulation so they can rip society off even more just wanted the brakes off. This country needs to learn from Germans, Scandinavians, Dutch and then more people will have a chance. Johnson and Farage just pure scum.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

I am happy to acknowledge a lie if you set it out. You have not.
And yes, I do take an interest in politics.
There are lies told in politics. They deserve to be exposed.
I asked if you could set out "the possibility of facing world war 3 and Armageddon all in one?" Who said that? Just leave people, as far as I have read so far. It was not Cameron, or even Donald Tusk. You said it. Was there anyone else?
Gosh, I do like an informed debate.

The actual quote from Cameron regarding war was: 'Can we be so sure peace and stability on our continent are assured beyond any shadow of doubt? Is that a risk worth taking?
I would never be so rash to make that assumption'.
So their we have it, a bare naked threat sugared with political double talk. His comment about 'stability is preposterous because no stability can ever be assured beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

[JammyP]

The actual quote from Cameron regarding war was: 'Can we be so sure peace and stability on our continent are assured beyond any shadow of doubt? Is that a risk worth taking?
I would never be so rash to make that assumption'.

So their we have it, a bare naked threat sugared with political double talk. His comment about 'stability is preposterous because no stability can ever be assured beyond a shadow of a doubt.

but you are rash enough to make the assumption? Your choice. I hope you are right.

bit thin on Armageddon btw...

 

[AndyC]

Boris and now Farage haha What a pair of bottlers

Johnson - stabbed in the front by Gove - out of the picture.
Gove - no chance of getting PM as seen by most as slimy and treacherous - out of the picture.
Farage - steps down on the pretence of 'my work is done - out of the picture.
IDS - disliked by many irrespective of political persuasion - out of the picture.
Leadsom - will likely come runner-up to May and be offered the Chancellor job when May axes Osborne.
Fox - axed by Cameron ages ago and never in with a realistic chance of the PM job - out of the picture.
Gisela Stuart - only a matter of time before Corbyn wreaks his revenge upon her ?
Cameron - got the hump and bailed - out of the picture.

Nett result - all/most of the primary advocates of Leave and the leader of Remain end up being unaccountable for the potential mess the UK is now in, and have left the country largely rudderless as there is little or no consensus within the Tories or Labour parties right now.

 

[Joey66]

Every prime minister or politician would have to leave office if elected on a lie eg Nick Clegg promised free tuition fees the went as a deputy leader in a coalition Government that increased tuition fees!

 

[JammyP]

Did Farage have a duty to attend any of the dozens of fisheries committee meetings he skipped while on the committe and collecting his mep pay? Correct me if I wrong, but my recollection is he was never there. Batting for Britain? As much use as a fishfinger
...

 

[Joey66]

Johnson - stabbed in the front by Gove - out of the picture.
Gove - no chance of getting PM as seen by most as slimy and treacherous - out of the picture.
Farage - steps down on the pretence of 'my work is done - out of the picture.
IDS - disliked by many irrespective of political persuasion - out of the picture.
Leadsom - will likely come runner-up to May and be offered the Chancellor job when May axes Osborne.
Fox - axed by Cameron ages ago and never in with a realistic chance of the PM job - out of the picture.
Gisela Stuart - only a matter of time before Corbyn wreaks his revenge upon her ?
Cameron - got the hump and bailed - out of the picture.

Nett result - all/most of the primary advocates of Leave and the leader of Remain end up being unaccountable for the potential mess the UK is now in, and have left the country largely rudderless as there is little or no consensus within the Tories or Labour parties right now.

Boris still in his job as MP
Farage still an NEP till Brexit negotiations are over - also never an MP never had anything to do with the £340 million per week to the NHS- he knows more about the EU than most MPs!

 

[Bungle]

Johnson - stabbed in the front by Gove - out of the picture.
Gove - no chance of getting PM as seen by most as slimy and treacherous - out of the picture.
Farage - steps down on the pretence of 'my work is done - out of the picture.
IDS - disliked by many irrespective of political persuasion - out of the picture.
Leadsom - will likely come runner-up to May and be offered the Chancellor job when May axes Osborne.
Fox - axed by Cameron ages ago and never in with a realistic chance of the PM job - out of the picture.
Gisela Stuart - only a matter of time before Corbyn wreaks his revenge upon her ?
Cameron - got the hump and bailed - out of the picture.

Nett result - all/most of the primary advocates of Leave and the leader of Remain end up being unaccountable for the potential mess the UK is now in, and have left the country largely rudderless as there is little or no consensus within the Tories or Labour parties right now.

I believe that's word for word what I said basically. Give or take a few words...

 

[Joey66]

Did Farage have a duty to attend any of the dozens of fisheries committee meetings he skipped while on the committe and collecting his mep pay? Correct me if I wrong, but my recollection is he was never there. Batting for Britain? As much use as a fishfinger
...

Either way he has the support of the British fishing industry as no one else cares!
We lost all our fishing main industry to the EU!

 

[tsubaki]

An interesting study by Loughborough University's Centre for Research in Communication and Culture, in terms of media appearances by senior political figures during the referendum campaign:

Just Labour:

Corbyn 123
Brown 52
Stuart 33
Khan 24
Darling 20
Johnson 19
Balls 18
Harman 17
McDonnell 16
Eagle 15 (the highest number of appearances by someone in the rebellion and in the Shadow Cabinet)

Kind of blows the "he didn't do enough" argument out of the water, doesn't it? Or rather, whose invisibility did the most damage?

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

but you are rash enough to make the assumption? Your choice. I hope you are right.

bit thin on Armageddon btw...

I don't consider there are any serious threats of war on the horizon at all. What risks should we be afraid of exactly that we can't handle on our own? The only real serious problem the world faces in terms of national threats to security is terrorism and it needs hardly be pointed out that our being in the EU did nothing to prevent the 7/7 bombing's or any of the God awful atrocities in France. The other possible threat is nuclear warfare and it needs hardly be pointed out that all nations will work together to prevent this because it's in the national interest of everyone.

Prehaps I was a little thin on the Armageddon line, but I think its fair to say that everyone is being a little OTT and extravagant with their thoughts and feelings at the moment. I respect your point of view obviously but I genuinely don't see any possible threat of war on the horizon. Perhaps you do, I'd be very interested to hear what threat's you think we will face, other the terrorism and nuclear war of course (which is a global crisis that everyone faces that we will all have cooperate together, both inside and outside the EU) We can't live our whole life based on the fear of the unknown, if we did none of us would ever of left our perents home, or settled down with our partners, or decided to raise a family. All these things can seem to be intimidating at the time but you'll always (in my experience anyway) look back years later and say to yourself 'why in God's name was I ever worried about that!'

 

[JammyP]

I don't consider there are any serious threats of war on the horizon at all. What risks should we be afraid of exactly that we can't handle on our own? The only real serious problem the world faces in terms of national threats to security is terrorism and it needs hardly be pointed out that our being in the EU did nothing to prevent the 7/7 bombing's or any of the God awful atrocities in France. The other possible threat is nuclear warfare and it needs hardly be pointed out that all nations will work together to prevent this because it's in the national interest of everyone.

Prehaps I was a little thin on the Armageddon line, but I think its fair to say that everyone is being a little OTT and extravagant with their thoughts and feelings at the moment. I respect your point of view obviously but I genuinely don't see any possible threat of war on the horizon. Perhaps you do, I'd be very interested to hear what threat's you think we will face, other the terrorism and nuclear war of course (which is a global crisis that everyone faces that we will all have cooperate together, both inside and outside the EU) We can't live our whole life based on the fear of the unknown, if we did none of us would ever of left our perents home, or settled down with our partners, or decided to raise a family. All these things can seem to be intimidating at the time but you'll always (in my experience anyway) look back years later and say to yourself 'why in God's name was I ever worried about that!'

Fair post. I don't think that the Crimeans expected Russia to invade. Or that the Bosnians expected to be massacred by Serbs. It is difficutle to prediuct what is around the next corenr. But within the EU, there has been no war between states (if we exclude Northern Ireland and the Basques) who are members of the EU. It is not the only reason peace has been sustained. But the EU has been, and I hope will remain, a force for the good in terms of prolonging peace.

 

[Garrick]

What an absolute mess.

Well done lads, it's good to not be the dumbest voting populace on the block for once.

 

[peteblue]

What an absolute mess.

Well done lads, it's good to not be the dumbest voting populace on the block for once.

Dont worry you will regain your title on November 8th........

 

[JammyP]

Four disproven lies leep to mind.
1) Turkey being the first, David Cameron went from saying he was "the strongest possible advocate for Turkey joining the EU" pre referendum to suddenly changing his tune and saying that they wouldn't join until 'the year 3000', however he repeatedly turned down the opportunity to say the UK would voto Turkey joining the EU.

2) The second is with regards to free movement negotiations with the EU, Cameron stated that he would seek to 'continue to negotiate free movement first thing on Fri', this was proven to be lies within hours by Junker who said: 'Mr Cameron got the maximum deal he could receive and we gave him the maximum deal we could give so there will be no kind of negotiation on the negotiation we found in February or as far as any treaty negotiation is concerned'.

3) David Cameron claimed repeatedly that EU migrants would have to leave the country if they did find work within six months. He said: 'If you vote to stay then we will get the changes that I have negotiated and that means that if somebody comes to Britain from the European Union, they can't claim unemployment benefits. If they haven't got a job after six months they have to leave'. This is obviously a lie as its in direct violation of the European Court of Justice which has ruled that Jobseekers cannot be removed irrespective of how long a person has been here providing they can prove to they are 'continuing to seek employment'. Not to mention the fact that Junker had already stated that no further negotiations would be possible (see above).

4) Finally David Cameron said us leaving could spark 'a trade war' this was dismissed by Markus Kerber the head of the BDI (which is the largest business organization in Germany) who said the following: 'Imposing trade barriers, imposing protectionist measures between our two countries or between two political centres, the EU on one hand and the UK on the other would be a very, very foolish thing to do in the 21st century. The BDI would urge poltitions on both sides to come up with a trade deal that enables us to uphold and maintain the current levels of trade we have'.

-

Inspired by a Daily Mail article on 22 June? Bit of an agenda there? Pinch of salt time?
1 - Turkey - I am note defending Cameron. He can twist like the weasel he is. But Turkey has to meet 25 criteria to apply to join the EU, and so far it meets just 1. Not going to happen soon. It was not true to suggest it would.
2 - Free movement - The UK is not alone in thinking free movement needs to be revisited. Juncker is not the EU. Nor is Merkel. The EU will continue to evolve. Norway pays more per head than we do for access to the EU, and has to accept free movement. Will we do better? Boris didn't think so.
3 - Migrants (and everone on these islands is descended from immigrants) - I am not defending Cameron. God knows where he got a six month figure from in the debate.
- Cameron had negotiated changes to benefit entitlements. Brexit has struck this down. It is one of the few reforms he actually managed to negotiate. [for a neutral view of what he had negotiated, see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105 - What he wanted and what he got]
4- Trade war. We will see. No free movement? Then WTO tariffs will apply. Whether that amounts to a trade war is a matter of semantics. The EU Trade Commissioner has said this week that the UK cannot even begin to negotiate a trade deal until after it has left, and she accepted this harms both sides. May be stupid, but it is their ball, and their game.