Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
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JammyP said:
Fair post. I don't think that the Crimeans expected Russia to invade. Or that the Bosnians expected to be massacred by Serbs. It is difficutle to prediuct what is around the next corenr. But within the EU, there has been no war between states (if we exclude Northern Ireland and the Basques) who are members of the EU. It is not the only reason peace has been sustained. But the EU has been, and I hope will remain, a force for the good in terms of prolonging peace.
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I'm sorry mate but I can't let that one slide! This peace the EU has allegedly helped to create is a myth. The EU itself only came into being in 1993 when it replaced (without the consent of any of the people from the member states I might add) the Common Market. Prior to that for many years we had the cold war and both British and American troops were based in Germany since 1945 and the end of WW2. Surely you can see it was the presence of those troops that kept the peace, not the Common Market, which we did join till 1973 anyway (it was originally founded in 1957). We then have the time period of 1993 to 2016, what possible threat's have the EU played a major role in preventing during this time?
 
JammyP said:
Inspired by a Daily Mail article on 22 June? Bit of an agenda there? Pinch of salt time?
1 - Turkey - I am note defending Cameron. He can twist like the weasel he is. But Turkey has to meet 25 criteria to apply to join the EU, and so far it meets just 1. Not going to happen soon. It was not true to suggest it would.
2 - Free movement - The UK is not alone in thinking free movement needs to be revisited. Juncker is not the EU. Nor is Merkel. The EU will continue to evolve. Norway pays more per head than we do for access to the EU, and has to accept free movement. Will we do better? Boris didn't think so.
3 - Migrants - I am not defending Cameron. GOd knows where he got a six month figure from in the debate.
- Cameron had negotiated changes to benefit entitlements. Brexit has struck this down. It is one of the few reforms he actually managed to negotiate. [for a neutral view of what he had negotiated, see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35622105 - What he wanted and what he got]
4- Trade war. We will see. No free movement? Then WTO tariffs will apply. Whether that amounts to a tracde war is a matter of semantics. The EU Trade Commissioner has said this week that the UK cannot even begin to negotiate a trade deal until after it has left, and she accepted this harms both sides. May be stupid, but it is their ball, and their game.
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I don't read the Daily Mail mate, so of all the things you can accuse me of reading that rag isn't one of them.
 
Gwladysstreetlad said:
I'm sorry mate but I can't let that one slide! This peace the EU has allegedly helped to create is a myth. The EU itself only came into being in 1993 when it replaced (without the consent of any of the people from the member states I might add) the Common Market. Prior to that for many years we had the cold war and both British and American troops were based in Germany since 1945 and the end of WW2. Surely you can see it was the presence of those troops that kept the peace, not the Common Market, which we did join till 1973 anyway (it was originally founded in 1957). We then have the time period of 1993 to 2016, what possible threat's have the EU played a major role in preventing during this time?
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Let what slide? "It is not the only reason peace has been sustained. But the EU has been, and I hope will remain, a force for the good in terms of prolonging peace"
And I did mean to include the historic EEC and the common market (and the European Coal and Steel Community for that matter) when I used the careless shorthand of "EU".
I do think giving the EU's states a platform to bicker with each other, and to promote trade, and free movment, has encouraged peaceful coexistence. Is that so radical?
Of course NATO and the balance of destructive forces on either side of the Iron Curtain also played their huge part in avoiding war in most of Europe.But nowhere has fallen apart like Yugoslavia, or been invaded like Crimea, in the EU, has it?
I am not as naive as you seem to think. And I doubt if you are as naive as your knee jerk response might suggest.
Anyway, obvously the lower Gwladys is the place to be. I hope we can agree on that as a basis for going forward ;)
 
JammyP said:
Glad to hear. Yuu may be wrong, but obviusly not that wrong..... I don't read the Mail either. But it made the same four points, so they must have got around.
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Well I most certainly didn't get them from the Daily Mail! Lol, I wouldn't be caught dead reading that rag. Maybe the the Daily Mail actually got it right for once. Its possible I suppose, even a broken clock is right twice a day!
 
JammyP said:
Let what slide? "It is not the only reason peace has been sustained. But the EU has been, and I hope will remain, a force for the good in terms of prolonging peace"
And I did mean to include the historic EEC and the common market (and the European Coal and Steel Community for that matter) when I used the careless shorthand of "EU".
I do think giving the EU's states a platform to bicker with each other, and to promote trade, and free movment, has encouraged peaceful coexistence. Is that so radical?
Of course NATO and the blance of destructive forces on either side of the Iron Curtain also played their huge part in avoiding war in most of Europe.But nowhere has fallen apart like Yugoslavia, or been invaded like Crimea, in the EU, has it?
I am not as naive as you seem to think. And I doubt if you are as naive as your knee jerk response might suggest.
Anyway, obvously the lower Gwladys is the place to be. I hope we can agree on that as a basis for going forward ;)
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First of all you got the 'like' for the Lower Gwladys comment and nothing else! Lower Gwladys 4 Life!;)

I would still dispute that either the Common Market or the EU has played a major part in the prevention of war during its existence. The presence of troops in Germany was obviously the key component. We then have only the time from the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Fall of the USSR. I'm sorry but I still don't see any real MAJOR threat's the EU (or whatever) has helped to prevent during that time. If anything it's free movement law is the reason the terrorists responsible for the atrocities in France were able to evade capture for as long as they did.
If only the EU was the place you wish it was, a place were we discusse laws, trade agreement and common rights ect. I'd be all of that, that's what we signed up for in the first place. But what we have is political union of member states, controlled by unelected bureaucrats that answer to nobody and we cannot remove. I'm sorry but I never wanted this and I won't vote for it.
 
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Hope it will never. Be invoked.. Referendum is advisory.. Has to be passed. As an act of parliament..possible general election
 
Gwladysstreetlad said:
I'm sorry mate but I can't let that one slide! This peace the EU has allegedly helped to create is a myth. The EU itself only came into being in 1993 when it replaced (without the consent of any of the people from the member states I might add) the Common Market. Prior to that for many years we had the cold war and both British and American troops were based in Germany since 1945 and the end of WW2. Surely you can see it was the presence of those troops that kept the peace, not the Common Market, which we did join till 1973 anyway (it was originally founded in 1957). We then have the time period of 1993 to 2016, what possible threat's have the EU played a major role in preventing during this time?
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;)
 
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