Current Affairs EU In or Out

[roydo]

ANy sensible thinking person knew that there would not be £350m pw for the NHS. Any sensible thinking person knew that out of every £350m snet to the EU, we received a certain amount back. That results in a NET figure over to the EU. Blindingly obvious.

Second stab? Let's keep going at it innumerable times until the Remain section of the country get their way. Absolutely small-minded and pathetic thinking...

Its not a question of keeping going till someone gets their way. I totally respect the democratic will of the country, and fwiw, I bounced from one to the other for weeks.

But I honestly think that a lot of people, outside of the enthusiasts on both sides, just did not think this through.

I am not calling anyone out as being ignorant nor wrong, but my day job brings me into contact with loads of all sorts of folk. And like I said, other than the enthusiasts, most are utterly mortified at the ramifications now things are playing out.

A better informed democratic vote is a better result than the the utter joke of a campaign we witnessed. From all sides.

 

[ToffeeDoug]

Agree to disagree - Even agree the EU needs fixing. But we can't do that on the outside.

But the threat of leaving might prompt the EU into change? Clearly the top Eurocrats don't see that at the moment but might once big business feeds back its concerns on the UK leaving and other states push for reforms.

 

[Toffeelover]

Roydo, I was not ignorant - I wanted our country to be governed by our parliament using laws made by us for us and only us. Not to be told when to jump by a whole pile of unelected, well you name them.

 

[Toffeelover]

But the threat of leaving might prompt the EU into change? Clearly the top Eurocrats don't see that at the moment but might once big business feeds back its concerns on the UK leaving and other states push for reforms.

Possibly but they are too late now. They were aware of the possibilities but thought it would not happen and that Juncker fellow has apparently being going around gloating that he got rid of us!

 

[1966efc]

Legal niceties aside, voters seem to have gone to the polls believing that the poll was to decide a certain issue, not to offer advice.

Both sides forwarded their arguments over a period of four or five months. No report / opinion poll / forecast of consequences was left unanalysed; poured over by experts and discussed on the media.

Even the people of the north and midlands had a fairly good idea of what they were voting for and its likely effects.

If there is any confusion, it is sowed by those who disagree with the result and who attempt to patronise the other side by constant references to their supposed ignorance.

For any government to ignore this vote (they may try to ameliorate exit in some way) would be suicidal politically and - as any professional politician knows - would open an argument that if a democratic vote is to be overturned, why bother voting? Why not just burn things, throw things; shoot things? If a democratic vote is regarded as subject to the will of the privileged, a hateful can of worms is opened.

In my opinion.

 

[Moomin]

Bottled it. BoJo and Farage, have ran off scared.

The bookies favourite for when article 50 will be triggered is never.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

But the threat of leaving might prompt the EU into change? Clearly the top Eurocrats don't see that at the moment but might once big business feeds back its concerns on the UK leaving and other states push for reforms.

The bureaucrats who run the EU are incapable of change. They just want to keep riding the gravy train until it stops (which in their own arrogant minds it never will). The only way to save European cooperationion is to rid ourselves of the fat cats in Brussels. With them gone we can work out arrangements between all European countries, without paying for an endless army of unelected officials. We don't need the EU Parliament or the Commission or any of the other useless parasite's that have been stealing tax payers money (from here, Germany, France and all the other member states) for far to long!

 

[roydo]

Roydo, I was not ignorant - I wanted our country to be governed by our parliament using laws made by us for us and only us. Not to be told when to jump by a whole pile of unelected, well you name them.

Never said you were. And I totally understand your position. Many times I have thought the same. And like I said, I was an unenthusiastic Remain voter.

But I am of the opinion that outside of the active, engaged populace, this seismic vote has not been as welcomed as a lot who voted for it actually thought it would be. Nor did a lot actually think how it could pan out. And certainly not how it has.

 

[hullefc]

It is the un-elected UK civil servants that run the country and not parliament.

By Rowena Mason, Political Correspondent

10:00PM BST 01 Oct 2012

Francis Maude, the Cabinet Office minister, will condemn the “unacceptable” behaviour of some mandarins in charge of Whitehall departments, who are refusing to carry out the orders of their ministers.

In a speech at the Institute of Government, Mr Maude is expected to confirm there are several examples of top officials who intentionally frustrate Coalition policies when they do not want them to go ahead.

“Ministers from this Government, and in previous ones, have too often found that decisions they have made do not then get implemented,” he will say.

“There are cases when permanent secretaries have blocked agreed Government policy from going ahead or advised other officials not to implement ministerial decisions - that is unacceptable. And such exceptional cases undermine the sterling work of the majority of civil servants.”

In his speech, he will say permanent secretaries must be directly accountable to ministers and meet objectives published on their department’s website. The civil servants will then be appraised in line with their objectives by ministers".

 

[Toffeelover]

It is the un-elected UK civil servants that run the country and not parliament.

By Rowena Mason, Political Correspondent

10:00PM BST 01 Oct 2012

Francis Maude, the Cabinet Office minister, will condemn the “unacceptable” behaviour of some mandarins in charge of Whitehall departments, who are refusing to carry out the orders of their ministers.

In a speech at the Institute of Government, Mr Maude is expected to confirm there are several examples of top officials who intentionally frustrate Coalition policies when they do not want them to go ahead.

“Ministers from this Government, and in previous ones, have too often found that decisions they have made do not then get implemented,” he will say.

“There are cases when permanent secretaries have blocked agreed Government policy from going ahead or advised other officials not to implement ministerial decisions - that is unacceptable. And such exceptional cases undermine the sterling work of the majority of civil servants.”

In his speech, he will say permanent secretaries must be directly accountable to ministers and meet objectives published on their department’s website. The civil servants will then be appraised in line with their objectives by ministers".

But it is even worse when it is EU civil servants and people like Juncker. What can one say - oh I know "Yes Prime Minister"lol

 

[ToffeeDoug]

Possibly but they are too late now. They were aware of the possibilities but thought it would not happen and that Juncker fellow has apparently being going around gloating that he got rid of us!

Juncker is an arse and he merely confirms the need for reform in Europe. But it wasn't possible to vote Remain and use it as a protest vote for desiring further change. If Remain had won, the EU would have said to the UK, right you've had your chance, you've voted to confirm your full membership to our rules, now shut up, go and sit at the back and we never want to hear a peep out of you ever again. No chance there of forcing change from the inside.

 

[1966efc]

Juncker is an arse and he merely confirms the need for reform in Europe. But it wasn't possible to vote Remain and use it as a protest vote for desiring further change. If Remain had won, the EU would have said to the UK, right you've had your chance, you've voted to confirm your full membership to our rules, now shut up, go and sit at the back and we never want to hear a peep out of you ever again. No chance there of forcing change from the inside.

This country (and I speak as a foreign passport holder) isn't used to civil servants plying a public part in policy making or making overtly partisan points in public. Their contribution, from Delors onwards, helped plough the field.

 

[hullefc]

But it is even worse when it is EU civil servants and people like Juncker. What can one say - oh I know "Yes Prime Minister"lol

Ah, I get it. As long as it's 'our' un-elected civil servants that run the country then that's alright. UK parliamentary democracy works a treat.

 

[Toffeelover]

Ah, I get it. As long as it's 'our' un-elected civil servants that run the country then that's alright. UK democracy works a treat.

Just like EU democracy is that the one you prefer?

 

[peteblue]

I think the leave campaign has bottled it, that's why they have gone quiet. Doubt we will even trigger article 50.

Then you must be happy.....