Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Cant get my head round that conundrum neither. Speaker was pretty clear it needed more than a change of date to be a meaningful change. I think.

That lot just do whatever they want. It's an absolute circus.

 

[Harryflashman]

Please see above response to Khal which I think deals with my views on the DUP.

I've brought up the subject of the EU refusing simultaneous negotiations on the withdrawal and our future relationship two or three times now, as I think this has contributed to the current stalemate. It's always been ignored or simply dismissed, and it's interesting that you also made no reference to it in your response now. In my view it's a valid criticism of the EU in the Brexit process, and had we been sitting here with a decent trade deal on the table as part of our future relationship, then it might have had more support from the opposition. That would make the wishes of the ERG and DUP totally irrelevant. I'll say again, I'm pretty certain the EU want good future relations just as much as we do otherwise they wouldn't have been as generous in the backstop.

As regards the red lines comment, this is not so much the back stop itself but the need for one. More specifically it is the persistent refusal of the EU to re-open the withdrawal agreement. If we are to criticise the UK govt and other UK parties for not budging on their red lines, surely it is only fair to criticise the EU for doing the same thing.

The bottom line here is that nobody wants a border between the Republic and Northern Ireland. Now we already have the CTA which presumably the EU are happy to comply with post Brexit, whether there is an agreement or not. So the issue really revolves around the movement of goods between the two countries. In the interest of honouring the GFA, why can't the UK and the EU agree to there being a special arrangement for the area of Ireland/Northern Ireland to have some sort of special free zone status. One that doesn't involve NI being a member of the EU customs union or single market. Free movement of goods and people can be allowed within the free zone, but if/when they are transported to the EU or UK mainland they can then go through the appropriate customs. Any goods entering the UK that originated in Ireland or the EU would be subject to the appropriate levies, and the same for goods entering the EU that originated in the UK. After all, Ireland/North Ireland is actually an island so the borders couldn't be easier to manage.

I'm pretty certain the UK would agree to this if it meant doing away with this backstop. Why would the EU be any different if it really wanted to stand by the GFA. There really doesn't need to be a hard border, or indeed any border in Ireland. There is already a special agreement between the UK and Ireland that predates the EEC by decades. This would just be a sort of extension to that special agreement.

How can they protect the integrity of the single market though , which is at the very core of the EU If we don’t deal with the border . We can’t simply expect 27 nations to abandon their core principles to indulge our ideas of sovereignty. Not to mention when we’ve already had people talking about how great it’ll be to deal with the US who are taking about how our food regs will be different . We want our cake and to eat it and we’re surprised the EU haven’t pandered to us .

As regards the CTA mate I’ve posted a lot about it in the border thread and no doubt bored people rigid , it’s something that has certainly added to the issues surrounded Brexit . If we didn’t have the island of Ireland to contend with things may have been different but we are where we are , we currently have EU membership governing so it’s not an issue (although it is frankly with Brazilians and others using Ireland as a transit point and circumventing the visa requirements) but once we leave they want their market integrity protected and I think that’s a reasonable demand .

 

[Harryflashman]

I thought she couldn't submit the vote again or am I missing something here...Help!

She can’t , well she can in it changes but the EU say she can’t have an extension if she changes anything in relation to their agreed negotiations , that would mean a no deal but parliament voted to prevent that but it’s not binding only advisory like the referendum.

Hope this helps

 

[orchard]

I thought she couldn't submit the vote again or am I missing something here...Help!

Parliament can vote to over-ride the speaker, or it needs to change substantially, or parliament needs to close for a day and re-open etc.
May's banking on no-deal forcing the vote through again, i think.

 

[tim cahill]

I'm talking reality not who you or I might think suitable.

Ask yourself who votes in a Conservative leadership election? - Conservative association members is the answer, 90% of whom seem to back leave or even no deal.

Johnson is favourite for precisely that reason

When it comes down to it I don’t think they’ll be that daft. They’ll want someone who will be taken seriously not someone who will attract unwanted attention to the party due to stupid comments in my opinion.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Parliament can vote to over-ride the speaker, or it needs to change substantially, or parliament needs to close for a day and re-open etc.
May's banking on no-deal forcing the vote through again, i think.

Like I said - it's a circus

 

[The binman chronicles]

The car is on fire and there's no driver at the wheel...

Close. More like the car is on fire and the driver is still saying she is going to get to her destination...

 

[Barnfred 55]

Were people criticising Bercow earlier?

Bruce. Why don't you go and read the specific reasons why people have been criticising Bercow and respond direct if you have an issue, rather than make generalised comments.

I have no problem with his statement today. It's his inconsistencies and lack of impartiality at times that are out of order for a person with his responsibility and power. I accept that the lack of impartiality is in your favour so you won't have an issue with this.

 

[Chris O'Connor]

When it comes down to it I don’t think they’ll be that daft. They’ll want someone who will be taken seriously not someone who will attract unwanted attention to the party due to stupid comments in my opinion.

I don't think its unlikely at all, far from it, he's favourite for a reason.

It's extremely likely to be someone from the Eurosceptic wing of their party as virtually all the leading candidates are of that persuasion.

Michael Gove is possibly another leading contender.

 

[orchard]

Like I said - it's a circus

Only because of the May. I can see a temporary neutral government being formed to get the rational ones at the reins to achieve a soft brexit or a push to revoke when they're staring into the chasm with May at the helm.

 

[Harryflashman]

Bruce. Why don't you go and read the specific reasons why people have been criticising Bercow and respond direct if you have an issue, rather than make generalised comments.

I have no problem with his statement today. It's his inconsistencies and lack of impartiality at times that are out of order for a person with his responsibility and power. I accept that the lack of impartiality is in your favour so you won't have an issue with this.

I’m not always convinced it is you know . He was criticised when he allowed an unprecedented third amendment in relation to the absence of the referendum bill and I think he pushed us significantly closer to a no deal Brexit whilst I personally heard on the tv and radio a number of ERG members praising the decision the other day. Don’t get me wrong I’m sure his opinions on Brexit are closer to mine than yours but I do think he mostly does what’s right .

 

[Frang]

ROLL ON MARCH 29TH

 

[Harryflashman]

ROLL ON MARCH 29TH

Thanks mate I feel this is what the debate needed to take it forward , it’s been genuinely civilised and enjoyable today so I’ve missed stuff like this . I just need someone to post 17.4m and you lost get over it and I’ll feel like things are where they should be .

 

[Barnfred 55]

errrm, is this not just the NI only backstop that the EU proposed?
Youre talking about a border down the irish sea.

Is it?. If it is I'll completely hold my hands up and say fair do's. But I genuinely thought that agreement involved Northern Ireland specifically being a member of the EU customs union and single market.

 

[Frang]

Come on macron or Italy.. Throw us leavers a bone here...

There's twists in this yet