Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Joey66]

I thought labour leader corbyn was a leaver ? I heard a number of senior ERG mp’s backing his decision the other day whilst many remainers protested it . The pm is trying to browbeat Parliament and mp’s who’ve twice voted against it were furious they couldn’t vote for it . All I’ve heard from leavers is how sacred sovereignty and parliament is then when rules are applied it’s a disgrace .

I’d probably think I want her deal to pass , only as I think no deal is a potential disaster so I wasn’t best pleased with his decision but how can we complain about somebody applying the law , it the same kind of ranting Gina Miller got .
[/QUOTE}
Excuse me only the week before the so called independent Speaker = Not - told a Tory MP - "I dont work of precedent , I know what I am doing" ...... then this week he uses a law from 1610 on precedence.......
he is an avid remainer - end of.......

Not that I think the deal will go through this week anyway makes me think it may have been rehearsed.......

 

[Harryflashman]

Looks like the extension agreed to 22nd May providing the deal passes

 

[roydo]

Looks like the extension agreed to 22nd May providing the deal passes

That BBC bloke is seriously ITK!

 

[Harryflashman]

That BBC bloke is seriously ITK!

lol

You’re not kidding, not mata or witsel moments with him cut straight to it .

 

[Tubey]

She really should resign.

Don't put the vote back to get battered - just realise the writing is on the wall and go.

 

[Ruairi77]

She really should resign.

Don't put the vote back to get battered - just realise the writing is on the wall and go.

or revoke article 50, just for a laugh like...

 

[Harryflashman]

That BBC bloke is seriously ITK!

I know you like the show , did you hear that Belgian MEP then ? Listening to him speak I couldn’t help but think that the Belgians elected him to the European Parliament and we sent farage

 

[roydo]

I know you like the show , did you hear that Belgian MEP then ? Listening to him speak I couldn’t help but think that the Belgians elected him to the European Parliament and we sent farage

It was hard to disagree with a word he said wasnt it?

 

[Blue 1]

The car is on fire and there's no driver at the wheel...

 

[Harryflashman]

It was hard to disagree with a word he said wasnt it?

He was excellent , Lucid and articulate in a language that isn’t his own . imagine him sitting across from some of the ranting little Englander snake oil salesman we’ve sent them , no problem with anybody wanting to leave but we’ve sent some absolute whoppers over there .

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Looks like the extension agreed to 22nd May providing the deal passes

I thought she couldn't submit the vote again or am I missing something here...Help!

 

[Barnfred 55]

They came up with a perfectly reasonable solution though , that the north stay in the EU but the position of the Dup meant that couldn’t happen . The one I said in the border thread I didn’t think was perfect but was probably the bear was a border in the sea but again mays red lines prevented it . So the U.K. came up with the backstop and the EU said fair enough . After mays historic defeat she wanted to change it to ‘other arrangements ‘ , now let’s be honest that’s absolutely ridiculous. Because for all the talk of available technology and these fantastic ethereal solutions that’s just words , you can’t expect them to accept a solution that is basically “trust us we’re convinced something will come up” . We wanted them to change it but we offered no alternative. The erg , dup and others have consistently spun the yarn there is a secret solution but when push come to shove it’s nowhere to be seen , liars lying.

I think I’ve we’re talking specifically over the backstop and the republic then I think the EU have been perfectly reasonable I honestly do . Our government and many others on both sides by the way have prevaricated and lies about solutions the EU wouldn’t have it and frankly mate who can blame them.

By the way if you’d told me I’d be arguing for the EU I wouldn’t have believed you but some of the lies out there , I certainly don’t mean you , particularly by politicians are nothing short of despicable.

Please see above response to Khal which I think deals with my views on the DUP.

I've brought up the subject of the EU refusing simultaneous negotiations on the withdrawal and our future relationship two or three times now, as I think this has contributed to the current stalemate. It's always been ignored or simply dismissed, and it's interesting that you also made no reference to it in your response now. In my view it's a valid criticism of the EU in the Brexit process, and had we been sitting here with a decent trade deal on the table as part of our future relationship, then it might have had more support from the opposition. That would make the wishes of the ERG and DUP totally irrelevant. I'll say again, I'm pretty certain the EU want good future relations just as much as we do otherwise they wouldn't have been as generous in the backstop.

As regards the red lines comment, this is not so much the back stop itself but the need for one. More specifically it is the persistent refusal of the EU to re-open the withdrawal agreement. If we are to criticise the UK govt and other UK parties for not budging on their red lines, surely it is only fair to criticise the EU for doing the same thing.

The bottom line here is that nobody wants a border between the Republic and Northern Ireland. Now we already have the CTA which presumably the EU are happy to comply with post Brexit, whether there is an agreement or not. So the issue really revolves around the movement of goods between the two countries. In the interest of honouring the GFA, why can't the UK and the EU agree to there being a special arrangement for the area of Ireland/Northern Ireland to have some sort of special free zone status. One that doesn't involve NI being a member of the EU customs union or single market. Free movement of goods and people can be allowed within the free zone, but if/when they are transported to the EU or UK mainland they can then go through the appropriate customs. Any goods entering the UK that originated in Ireland or the EU would be subject to the appropriate levies, and the same for goods entering the EU that originated in the UK. After all, Ireland/North Ireland is actually an island so the borders couldn't be easier to manage.

I'm pretty certain the UK would agree to this if it meant doing away with this backstop. Why would the EU be any different if it really wanted to stand by the GFA. There really doesn't need to be a hard border, or indeed any border in Ireland. There is already a special agreement between the UK and Ireland that predates the EEC by decades. This would just be a sort of extension to that special agreement.

 

[roydo]

I thought she couldn't submit the vote again or am I missing something here...Help!

Cant get my head round that conundrum neither. Speaker was pretty clear it needed more than a change of date to be a meaningful change. I think.

 

[Ruairi77]

Please see above response to Khal which I think deals with my views on the DUP.

I've brought up the subject of the EU refusing simultaneous negotiations on the withdrawal and our future relationship two or three times now, as I think this has contributed to the current stalemate. It's always been ignored or simply dismissed, and it's interesting that you also made no reference to it in your response now. In my view it's a valid criticism of the EU in the Brexit process, and had we been sitting here with a decent trade deal on the table as part of our future relationship, then it might have had more support from the opposition. That would make the wishes of the ERG and DUP totally irrelevant. I'll say again, I'm pretty certain the EU want good future relations just as much as we do otherwise they wouldn't have been as generous in the backstop.

As regards the red lines comment, this is not so much the back stop itself but the need for one. More specifically it is the persistent refusal of the EU to re-open the withdrawal agreement. If we are to criticise the UK govt and other UK parties for not budging on their red lines, surely it is only fair to criticise the EU for doing the same thing.

The bottom line here is that nobody wants a border between the Republic and Northern Ireland. Now we already have the CTA which presumably the EU are happy to comply with post Brexit, whether there is an agreement or not. So the issue really revolves around the movement of goods between the two countries. In the interest of honouring the GFA, why can't the UK and the EU agree to there being a special arrangement for the area of Ireland/Northern Ireland to have some sort of special free zone status. One that doesn't involve NI being a member of the EU customs union or single market. Free movement of goods and people can be allowed within the free zone, but if/when they are transported to the EU or UK mainland they can then go through the appropriate customs. Any goods entering the UK that originated in Ireland or the EU would be subject to the appropriate levies, and the same for goods entering the EU that originated in the UK. After all, Ireland/North Ireland is actually an island so the borders couldn't be easier to manage.

I'm pretty certain the UK would agree to this if it meant doing away with this backstop. Why would the EU be any different if it really wanted to stand by the GFA. There really doesn't need to be a hard border, or indeed any border in Ireland. There is already a special agreement between the UK and Ireland that predates the EEC by decades. This would just be a sort of extension to that special agreement.

errrm, is this not just the NI only backstop that the EU proposed?
Youre talking about a border down the irish sea.

 

[Khalekan]

Khal, I'm not going to get involved in the politics of Northern Ireland specifically, as I know little about it and, to be quite honest, it isn't an issue that is close to my heart. Obviously it is with you which is absolutely fine. I have no opinion either way other than I just hope and pray that it doesn't revert back to the troubles and violence of the 70s/80s/90s which resonated around the whole of the UK. If you have read my posts you will know that I have already criticised the DUP for putting politics ahead of the country and also of the govt for allowing this to happen.

Can I also just add that if the opposition were more supportive of May in the autumn of 2017 then the wishes of the 10 DUP MPs would have been completely irrelevant anyway. Nor that of the 70 or so ERG members who seem intent on driving the country to a potentially disastrous no deal Brexit.

I have just done another post on where I think the EU must have some blame. But bear in mind I'm not saying it's all their fault Khal. The vast majority of fault lies with the UK govt and with parliament. I've been quite supportive of the EU in here. Much more so than other any other leave voter I would say. I just don't think they should be completely absolved of blame. But every time I say this people ignore the good things I say and just pick me up on the criticisms. It's almost like the EU is untouchable.

In a nutshell, Barney.

Bingo.

No one on the Brexit side gave a stuff about Northern Ireland (not saying you were on the Brexit side, just speaking about Brexiteers in general).

Comes to that, nor did many on the Remain side but this problem ain’t of their making.

Which is why we say the Referendum vote was taken in a cesspit of ignorance.

And now it is biting Leavers on the arse.

But the EU were concerned about it and did their best to solve the problem.

But ignorance rules.....and a little corner of the UK across the sea and which the English left to foment in its own bile for nearly a century has served to de-stabilise the governance of England and has us facing a precipice of economic uncertainty.

Only I have children and grandchildren to worry about going forward I would laugh at how this is playing out.

The DUP and its founder, Ian Paisley snr. opposed every measure of reform in the NI state, dating back to Paisley marching against Civil Rights for the Catholics in the 1960s right up to the refusal to bring back the Stormont Assembly last year becase the Irish Language was to be accorded the same respect as the Scottish and Welsh languages are in those countries.

They brought down several previous attemots at power sharing through strikes and intimidation.

And now the DUP are being allowed to wreak their havoc on a national stage.

We must be completely barmy for standing by and watching this unfold.

Though on the plus side, it has brought Ulster Says No type politics to the fore and forced previously uninformed fellows like your good self to give a bit of thought to the mess in which we left Ireland, back in 1922.