Current Affairs EU In or Out

[toffee matt]

Because no matter how many times people tell others absolute, indisputable facts, they cover their ears and pretend they don't exist.

I'm not talking about generally wanting to leave the EU - everyone is entitled to an opinion. But it's the weird preoccupation with pretending absolutely everything negative about leaving doesn't exist which is bizarre.

Comes from our supposed political "leaders" this

 

[The Esk]

I've given you the totals in cold hard cash above Esk, our biggest imports in order are from Germany, China, USA, Holland, France, Belguim, Italy, Spain, Ireland, Norway, Canada

I'm not bothered about who our biggest importers are mate. What I am saying is that us not having access to the single market is a lose/lose situation for everyone but disproportionately it effects the UK more than any other nation in the single market. That's why the idea that we have some enormous negotiating advantage over the EU is entirely false.

44% of our exports are now exposed to whatever negotiations occur, only 7% of Germany's 7% of France's and 5% of Italy's are exposed. We're vulnerable and the EU know that.

BTW - the website I mentioned is ace for all sorts of economic data if you are interested.

 

[The Mighty Quint]

Let's just forget for a second that free movement is a founding principle of the EU for a second. For some reason this doesn't seem an important point to some here.

We have just left the EU in one of the most high profile elections in recent European history. The EU, obviously, wants the EU to remain as it is. Why on earth would they allow us to continue to access the free market on our own terms, removing free movement of people from our deal, when it would risk the break up of the EU as we know it? I am sure the EU would not allow it to happen - unless they want other countries to look at us as an example of how to leave but continue access the free market without agreeing to free movement. It is absolutely not going to happen.

The thing is we are not like a lot of other countries, we are a major trading partner, buying billions in goods, we are an apex country in Europe.

We will not accept the free movement of people as it is now, absolutely no chance, the shackles are off, we can now build trade with major developing countries like China and India, we will end up a much better off in the end I'm positive of it.

 

[Tubey]

Comes from our supposed political "leaders" this

Well, you can prove anything with facts can't you...

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

removing free movement of people from our deal, when it would risk the break up of the EU as we know it?

This is what some people are not grasping, if the EU did remove free movement of people for us in a deal, then the rest of the bigger EU countries would want the same deal.

 

[orchard]

And now you've just resorted to being a flippant tit. Nice one.

Haha. FYI I voted remain, and love Scotland and its people. Just sick of cry-arses throwing democracy under the Bus because they didn't get their own way.

 

[Seanjd]

The thing is we are not like a lot of other countries, we are a major trading partner, buying billions in goods, we are an apex country in Europe.

We will not accept the free movement of people as it is now, absolutely no chance, the shackles are off, we can now build trade with major developing countries like China and India, we will end up a much better off in the end I'm positive of it.

Why will we not accept it? I think we will.

 

[Tubey]

The thing is we are not like a lot of other countries, we are a major trading partner, buying billions in goods, we are an apex country in Europe.

We will not accept the free movement of people as it is now, absolutely no chance, the shackles are off, we can now build trade with major developing countries like China and India, we will end up a much better off in the end I'm positive of it.

So in your view, the EU will give up one of their enshrined principles, because the UK is 7% of the overall export trade of Germany...

OK then.

 

[Tubey]

This is what some people are not grasping, if the EU did remove free movement of people for us in a deal, then the rest of the bigger EU countries would want the same deal.

The problem is some people can't think geopolitically, meaning in their heads the issue is black and white and has no knock-on effects.

From a sociological study viewpoint, it's actually fascinating.

 

[Brennan]

Haha. FYI I voted remain, and love Scotland and its people. Just sick of cry-arses throwing democracy under the Bus because they didn't get their own way.

If you care about democracy you should be supporting Scotland's right to a second independence referendum.

 

[1966efc]

Where did you find the 40% of young voters turned out stat?

Came up on the special edition of Questiontime last night.

 

[Seanjd]

The thing is we are not like a lot of other countries, we are a major trading partner, buying billions in goods, we are an apex country in Europe.

We will not accept the free movement of people as it is now, absolutely no chance, the shackles are off, we can now build trade with major developing countries like China and India, we will end up a much better off in the end I'm positive of it.

Boris Johnson is going to be the figure head of this process now. I would steer clear of falling into the trap of believing Boris Johnson. His Telegraph piece today read the same as Hannan's interview on News Night; basically an admission that free movement is ties with access to the single market.

I don't think Boris Johnson, frankly, cares whether or not immigration is reduced. For him, this was was a careerist, opportunist venture, one which has paid off massively. He has achieved a huge change in our country - I don't think he will be bothered in the slightest about holding his word on some of the technicalities he sold to the public to achieve Brexit in the first place.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Haha. FYI I voted remain, and love Scotland and its people. Just sick of cry-arses throwing democracy under the Bus because they didn't get their own way.

I think it's more that people are seeing bad things happening and all the leave side have done thus far is say "yeah but it'll be alright, we're not sure quite how yet, or what we'll do, but trust us, y'know..."

It's utterly terrifying the rabbit hole we've been thrown down, and to be honest, there isn't a single argument from the leave camp that isn't dependent upon us somehow magically getting some kind of trade deal that excludes us from any kind of legal obligations or the free movement of people, when both are key facets of the common market. Surely you can forgive people for thinking that is utter pie in the sky?

As I mentioned yesterday, the EU has 52 trade deals with other countries, that we are a part of, and is negotiating 72 more at the moment. We're out of all of those now, so will have to negotiate 125 new trade deals (the extra one is with the EU). The average length of such deals is around 7 years, and the average cost of having standard WTO agreements vs specific deals is many billions.

This is sheer insanity that was sold on the basis of numerous things that the leave campaign have been backtracking on in record time, and the whole affair has cost us a prime minister and likely the leader of the Labour party, so any domestic issues are likely to be up the spout in the short term too. Meanwhile, it's given fresh impetus to Scotland to break up the Union.

I'm struggling to see the up-side to all of this to be honest.

 

[1966efc]

So 70% of young voters did not vote to remain?

No, 60% didn't vote. The interpretation of that is up the punter.

 

[The Mighty Quint]

I'm not bothered about who our biggest importers are mate. What I am saying is that us not having access to the single market is a lose/lose situation for everyone but disproportionately it effects the UK more than any other nation in the single market. That's why the idea that we have some enormous negotiating advantage over the EU is entirely false.

44% of our exports are now exposed to whatever negotiations occur, only 7% of Germany's 7% of France's and 5% of Italy's are exposed. We're vulnerable and the EU know that.

BTW - the website I mentioned is ace for all sorts of economic data if you are interested.

They still won't want to lose any business with us, in money terms it's $100's billions, what about the jobs it secures in those countries, we were Germany's 3rd largest export market in 2015, behind the USA and France.

What about building trade with India and China, something we couldn't do while in the EU, anything from the UK is marked as being quality and is prestigious to own in the likes of India and China, there is vast potential in those countries.