Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Dymak]

I'm not "suggesting" it; it's what it is. What Tree13 just posted is utter nonsense.

How many people have to tell you? @The Esk, @Seanjd, myself, every expert on the matter in the world, the guidelines of the EFTA, every single political precedent... is it all white noise, or do you just find facts cloud your judgement so you ignore them?

I don't mean to be rude but, honestly, it's a case of 1+1=2 being ignored because you want the answer to be 3, so it'll damn well be 3!

No it isn't. I'm saying I don't know what the outcome of the negotiations will be. Your saying that you do, and that the outcome of the forthcoming negotiations is already a fact. A fact that didn't seem to be well promoted within the Remain's angel-like propaganda campaign for some reason?

I'm also saying that Mr Johnson's article in the Telegraph is not some massive U-turn from his rhetoric prior to the vote. In fact, it's basically identical. And it's a rhetoric that includes a specific reference to gaining control of immigration and implementing a points style system. @Seanjd has interpreted the article as if it is some massive U-turn from Boris Johnson when it is nothing of the sort. What was that you were saying about 1+1 being ignored as you are only willing to accept the answer of 3?

 

[Tree13]

13% of their trade, 50% of ours. We desperately need to trade with the EU, whilst the EU are already deep in discussions with Canada, USA and China.

We're the back of the queue. Obama didn't lie. You grossly overestimate the UK's importance - the EU will just shift the goalposts and carry on a bit weaker; whereas we'd be crippled.

Not only that, by their rules, Brexit is dictated by the EU and we have no input. So there's that.

The EU has been in ongoing discussions with Canada, USA and China for years. This is the precise problem UK businesses have! The EU cannot reach agreements with any of these countries because the EU is 28 bickering members. The biggest economy the EU has ever negotiated a trade deal with is South Korea. Australia has a better collection of trade deals, and it doesn't have one with the EU.

Remind me how much longer Obama is in power for? The US and the UK could, and would, negotiate a trade deal in a fraction of the time the EU could. Pretty sure the US government has the manpower available to carry out both sets of negotiations at once.

Article 50 is solely for the member state concerned to invoke. The EU does not dictate brexit at all.

 

[Tree13]

They have a stronger hand than we do.

Then why is Angela Merkel, leader of the only member state that makes a bigger net contribution than we do, taking the position she is?

They don't have a stronger hand mate. And Merkel is aware of this.

Consider the fact that the meeting held to discuss the EU's approach to dealing with the UK referendum result only included SIX member states... the ones that are net contributors. And after that meeting, Merkel came out and stated to the press that she does NOT support punitive measures being taken against the UK and also that in the event the UK leaves, she sees us as a "special trading partner". That's a spectacular deviation from what the likes of Juncker have been saying. And Merkel already foots 20% of the bill for the EU - she's in charge.

 

[Elong]

If you think you're getting the same, or even better, trade deals than before Brexit, well, I want some of what you're smoking.

 

[SNova]

Reading this thread this morning and some of the comments IMO is half the reason why a lot of people voted to leave. So many patronising, condescending comments with regards to anyone who chose to vote to leave. Making out people are imbeciles, bigoted or both, when in actual fact no-one knows the reasons for each individual persons choice to vote the way they did.

For the record I voted to remain but I'm not going to denigrate people for the decision they have come to, after all that's what democracy is all about

Good post mate. I believe this is exactly why they lost, the remain campaign was a bunch of sneering out of touch, metropolitan, champagne Socialists who jeered at ordinary decent people.

The likes of Bob Geldof and Eddie Izzard etc.

 

[ilikecheese]

Good post mate. I believe this is exactly why they lost, the remain campaign was a bunch of sneering out of touch, metropolitan, champagne Socialists who jeered at ordinary decent people.

The likes of Bob Geldof and Eddie Izzard etc.

Well from my across the pond American perspective, the leave vote is xenophobic isolationist scaremongering from the conservative right. It's what Trump woulda done...which should make Americans shudder.

 

[USABlue]

Good post mate. I believe this is exactly why they lost, the remain campaign was a bunch of sneering out of touch, metropolitan, champagne Socialists who jeered at ordinary decent people.

The likes of Bob Geldof and Eddie Izzard etc.

Well from my across the pond American perspective, the leave vote is xenophobic isolationist scaremongering from the conservative right. It's what Trump woulda done...which should make Americans shudder.

So basically it's two camps using completely OTT, but seperate, rhetoric to get the public on their side when the issues are much more complex than that.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

I moved to Derry four years ago, from Liverpool. It feels like the whole island has been destabilised in the course of a single day. Couldn't believe the parties here supporting Leave. Blind, stupid, clueless. People feel cut adrift.

Our political parties aren't used to governing at all and nor are they concerned about providing leadership for all of society. Sad that they still can't function together to transcend historic divisions. Brexit will be quite a legacy for some of them to reflect on.

 

[ilikecheese]

So basically it's two camps using completely OTT, but seperate, rhetoric to get the public on their side when the issues are much more complex than that.

They really aren't that complex or separate though.

It's simply a choice of being isolationists or remaining with the collective and educating the cititizens on what they've been gaining over 3 decades

 

[SNova]

They really aren't that complex or separate though.

It's simply a choice of being isolationists or remaining with the collective and educating the cititizens on what they've been gaining over 3 decades

Why is America being so isolationist not letting Canada dictate its laws? In fact why don't we have one world government. How some Americans can't grasp the concept of independence is beyond me.

 

[USABlue]

They really aren't that complex or separate though.

It's simply a choice of being isolationists or remaining with the collective and educating the cititizens on what they've been gaining over 3 decades

I don't mean Brexit or any specific issue, just pointing out there's OTT statements constantly thrown around in politics here in the US and over the pond.

 

[Elong]

Why is America being so isolationist not letting Canada dictate its laws? In fact why don't we have one world government. How some Americans can't grasp the concept of independence is beyond me.

Because America is big enough to look after itself.

 

[SNova]

Because America is big enough to look after itself.

What's with the lack of self confidence in our country? It's pessimistic.

 

[Yid4life]

I bet when the US were fighting for Independence you had Remainians saying WTF! You want to break away from the world's biggest superpower? Who are we going to trade with!

I think you will find pragmatism will prevail.

Strange how it is Americans on both this and Spurs boards flying the flag for Remain and telling us how stupid we have been. I have two words for them.

President Trump.

 

[Elong]

What's with the lack of self confidence in our country? It's pessimistic.

Small land, no viable exports, no credible leaders and overpopulation with an aging populace.