Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Ron Swanson]

Trump won the Presidency according to the laws and rules of the US.

The leavers won the referendum according to the laws and the rules of the UK.

It's a bit childish to accuse those who disagree with your opinions as trolls, by the way.

The rules of the country, enshrined by law, are that referenda are not binding. This was reaffirmed before the 2016 election. Parliament is sovereign.

I didn't call you a troll. I said you were trolling or uninformed if you are saying trump had the support of the majority in the US. I couldn't believe anyone who's discussing politics would not know that. It was nothing to do with opinions, just facts.

 

[Ron Swanson]

See post above.

A second referendum cannot happen. Where does it stop? The next General Election? Re-vote if a certain party doesn't win?

Er, we had two general elections in two years. They demonstrate perfectly how wildly public will can change in a short time frame.

 

[Joey66]

Sam......17 million out of a total population of circa 63 million voted to leave.

And even that was only one million more than voted to stay

It was a narrow enough margin and to describe it as the “will of the people” is to grossly over exaggerate the outcome.

It was also a blind vote...people are now better informed as to what they would be voting for.

So any MP calling for a new vote is doing so on my behalf and neither that MP nor me has owt to be “ashamed” off.

1.5 million in the biggest turn jut for a vote ever!

 

[Big Fat Sam]

Democracy isn't fixed though, we had two GEs in the space of a couple of years and could easily had another. If we leave the EU the Scots will get another once in a lifetime referendum to leave the UK. Things can change that should lead to reconsideration. This whole saga may lead to a further anti-establishment backlash that pushes people to leave and if the UK backs a no deal fair enough, but least no one can turn around and say I didn't know what I voted for. Now that statement affronts the leavers who did know, but there were people who just believed in what they were fed. Everyone deserves to know in black and white what this means.

It's like the question last time was put do you want to leave the EU? Therefore a Norway deal would meet the demands of that the question asked but we would be in a worse situation than before and not what anyone actually voted for. The campaign kept this as ambiguous as possible to not make one group or another rule out voting for brexit. Just an example of the underhand tactics.

Good post mate. I don't disagree with any of your points. I wish others could adopt a similar posting style instead of petty name-calling.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Now you're either trolling or uninformed. Trump lost the popular vote by around 3m

I vote for both.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

The rules of the country, enshrined by law, are that referenda are not binding. This was reaffirmed before the 2016 election. Parliament is sovereign.

I didn't call you a troll. I said you were trolling or uninformed if you are saying trump had the support of the majority in the US. I couldn't believe anyone who's discussing politics would not know that. It was nothing to do with opinions, just facts.

I since updated my quote to state he won the election according to the rules and laws of the US. A perfectly valid win that nobody could argue with. Same as Brexit vote.

Anyway - there is still lots and twists and turns in the road yet. I am eager to see how it all plays out. I fully respect your position on it all.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Good post mate. I don't disagree with any of your points. I wish others could adopt a similar posting style instead of petty name-calling.

I'm hurt... Really.

 

[Khalekan]

See post above.

A second referendum cannot happen. Where does it stop? The next General Election? Re-vote if a certain party doesn't win?

Sam, you are sawing off the branch you are sitting on,

We do “re-vote” on General Election results.

Every few years.

That is how we get rid of governments we dislike.

Going by your logic, the result of the last GE should be set in stone and we can never be given a chance to change it.

When the facts change, the sensible person likes the opportunity to change his or her opinion.

And by Jove, the facts have changed since the Referendum in 2016.

Now that we are all better informed on how Brexit might look in reality, chaps like your good self deserve the opportunity to revisit your decision and be in a better position to decide which way to vote.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

I vote for both.

Then, with all due respect to you and whichever way you stand on the topic, you would be wrong. I may be no political expert, but I quite clearly know that the referendum was won by one side and that, as a result, the will of the winning side should be followed through.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

Sam, you are sawing off the branch you are sitting on,

We do “re-vote” on General Election results.

Every few years.

That is how we get rid of governments we dislike.

Going by your logic, the result of the last GE should be set in stone and we can never be given a chance to change it.

When the facts change, the sensible person likes the opportunity to change his or her opinion.

And by Jove, the facts have changed since the Referendum in 2016.

Now that we are all better informed on how Brexit might look in reality, chaps like your good self deserve the opportunity to revisit your decision and be in a better position to decide which way to vote.

This is another good post - I like it!

The GE is a political process set in stone. A referendum isn't a vote that is re-visited once every four years. It's a one-off event to determine what action should be taken (in this instance).

What happens if something drastic happens in the meantime to even-up the argument and suddenly make Brexit more attractive (as unlikely as that may be)? Perhaps after a second referendum has taken place with the remainers winning. Would they then accept a third vote?

 

[Ron Swanson]

I’m all for a second referendum however I don’t know a single Brexiteer who has changed their mind, despite knowing all the facts.
I find it utterly baffling.

I know literally dozens of people who would intend to vote remain that, stupidly, did not vote in the first time around. I also know a handful of people who voted leave because either 1) they wanted to protest against the gov or 2) they 'never thought leave would win,' who now say they'd vote to remain.

Also, polling shows that there is strong support for Remain, and 3 years does throw up a lot of demographic changes with most new voters tending to favour remain and most of the older voters who've passed on favouring leave.

This is why brexiteers don't want a second referendum.

 

[Ron Swanson]

The GE is a political process set in stone. A referendum isn't a vote that is re-visited once every five years. It's a single-issue non-binding poll to give the government an idea of what action the public think should be taken. It has no legal nor constitutional standing and is preceded at all times by parliamentary sovereignty.

Fixed.

 

[davids]

Fine, but who cares. I want my country out of the E.U., I don’t care at all about who else stays or goes......

Are you referring to who stays in work or who goes on Universal Credit and down to the local food bank when the economy tanks?

 

[davids]

I really do think Corbyn Just goes with the flow Khal, if it looks like the people are leaning towards a second referendum, then he’ll jump on that wagon.

He cares about getting power,nothing else.He'd back anything if he thought it might work.His vote of no confidence was a master stroke.

 

[davids]

I don’t think any of the other member states could turn leaving into the utter shambles we have mate.

That's true,we have reached our potencial,but I think Spain.Italy or Portugal could run us close.