Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Khalekan]

Mandate to have another go at the EU?

Man, this is such palpable nonsense. You sound like Boris Johnson - why would the EU offer her any concessions after last night? They will never bend on the 4 freedoms, we've known that from the start and after last night the EU know for sure that there is no deal that can come back, that sorts out the Irish border, that will satisfy the head-banging idiots in her party and the septuagenarian membership. There is zero chance they will offer anything more meaningful (which is why even though everyone in the UK seems to think the chances of no-deal have lessened, in Europe they all think the chances have increased dramatically).

There are now three options - Norway, No-deal and 2nd Ref.

I think the Norway option is also dead because the right of her party do not see it as a true Brexit and I think it unlikely that Labour would help her out by swinging behind it (they smell a GE). It would also be difficult for May because of her fervent desire to end free movement and her belief that this is what the vote meant.

Problem is that this leads us to the two crazy extremes - no-deal, which no sane person wants (and you can start to see from May that the idea of her leading us down this path is beginning to terrify her) and a 2nd ref which neither her or Corbyn want to take charge of, due to the calls of ignoring the will of the people and the damage this could do to peoples faith in democracy ect...

All of this comes down to May's ridiculous red lines to again appease the hard eurosceptics in her party. She should have gone across the aisle at the start, to attempt to lessen the huge divisions in the country that this whole proccess has caused... and David Cameron, instead of just running away after the vote should have immediately proposed Norway. It was a tight 52-48 result and the EEA, Norway option would have made sense (lose the political affiliation but maintain the economic). 2.5 years ago, I think most would have accepted this as a fair and common sense application of the result.

God knows what happens now - if Corbyn doesn't swing behind a second ref in next 7 days though I think no-deal becomes increasingly likely by the day.

My hope is that MP's and Parliament begin to take hold of the process, but all they have said so far is what they don't want, not what they do.

Great post.

I can’t see Corbyn backing a Referendum on the matter as he is a Brexiteer himself.

 

[tim cahill]

Wonder what red lines will disappear now, listening to Gawke on Politics live, Custom Union is back on the table, its a good start?

She’s said today that she won’t budge on abolishing ‘free movement’. Which means a customs union is impossible and there’s no room to negotiate further with the EU. As far as she’s concerned it’s basically still her deal or no deal. She simply needs to be removed as PM as she can’t seem to grasp that no one wants her deal.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

This has all worked in the EU's favour.I can imagine any other member who harboured ideas of leaving will think very hard about where it can lead.

I don’t think any of the other member states could turn leaving into the utter shambles we have mate.

 

[tim cahill]

Great post.

I can’t see Corbyn backing a Referendum on the matter as he is a Brexiteer himself.

I think he’d prefer not to but if it’s that or no deal then I don’t think he’ll have much choice.

 

[Khalekan]

I don’t think any of the other member states could turn leaving into the utter shambles we have mate.

Indeed, Lou.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Great post.

I can’t see Corbyn backing a Referendum on the matter as he is a Brexiteer himself.

I really do think Corbyn Just goes with the flow Khal, if it looks like the people are leaning towards a second referendum, then he’ll jump on that wagon.

 

[gonetomorrow]

She’s said today that she won’t budge on abolishing ‘free movement’. Which means a customs union is impossible and there’s no room to negotiate further with the EU. As far as she’s concerned it’s basically still her deal or no deal. She simply needs to be removed as PM as she can’t seem to grasp that no one wants her deal.

She's right in one way. Free movement is the main thing that swayed the vote in favour of Leave.

 

[peteblue]

This has all worked in the EU's favour.I can imagine any other member who harboured ideas of leaving will think very hard about where it can lead.

Fine, but who cares. I want my country out of the E.U., I don’t care at all about who else stays or goes......

 

[edge]

Wouldn't to be nice if for once she did what she says and reaches out to the other parties in the interests of the country.
Realistically it looks like some form of so called soft brexit is the only option that has the numbers to go through parliament, people on both sides would have to give a bit on what they want to get a compromise deal but it would unblock this logjam.
Not as easy as it might seem at first glance as the other parties would have to stop playing the political tribal game for it to happen.
she could at least say, i tried if it didn't come off.

 

[tim cahill]

She's right in one way. Free movement is the main thing that swayed the vote in favour of Leave.

Yes, but it means further negotiations will be fruitless. The problem with the referendum was that it was a complex issue simplified into in or out. Freedom of movement wasn’t on the ballot, neither was no deal, neither was May’s deal and the Northern Ireland issue was never even mentioned which shows how well thought out the whole thing was. So many voted based on what the lies of Farage and Johnson etc... but that was never going to be the reality so what lots of people voted for doesn’t really exist. IMO the best outcome is what labour seem to want to do with the customs union: technically leaving the EU but in a way that will not have much of an impact.

 

[peteblue]

Mandate to have another go at the EU?

Man, this is such palpable nonsense. You sound like Boris Johnson - why would the EU offer her any concessions after last night? They will never bend on the 4 freedoms, we've known that from the start and after last night the EU know for sure that there is no deal that can come back, that sorts out the Irish border, that will satisfy the head-banging idiots in her party and the septuagenarian membership. There is zero chance they will offer anything more meaningful (which is why even though everyone in the UK seems to think the chances of no-deal have lessened, in Europe they all think the chances have increased dramatically).

There are now three options - Norway, No-deal and 2nd Ref.

I think the Norway option is also dead because the right of her party do not see it as a true Brexit and I think it unlikely that Labour would help her out by swinging behind it (they smell a GE). It would also be difficult for May because of her fervent desire to end free movement and her belief that this is what the vote meant.

Problem is that this leads us to the two crazy extremes - no-deal, which no sane person wants (and you can start to see from May that the idea of her leading us down this path is beginning to terrify her) and a 2nd ref which neither her or Corbyn want to take charge of, due to the calls of ignoring the will of the people and the damage this could do to peoples faith in democracy ect...

All of this comes down to May's ridiculous red lines to again appease the hard eurosceptics in her party. She should have gone across the aisle at the start, to attempt to lessen the huge divisions in the country that this whole proccess has caused... and David Cameron, instead of just running away after the vote should have immediately proposed Norway. It was a tight 52-48 result and the EEA, Norway option would have made sense (lose the political affiliation but maintain the economic). 2.5 years ago, I think most would have accepted this as a fair and common sense application of the result.

God knows what happens now - if Corbyn doesn't swing behind a second ref in next 7 days though I think no-deal becomes increasingly likely by the day.

My hope is that MP's and Parliament begin to take hold of the process, but all they have said so far is what they don't want, not what they do.

Once the confidence vote has been won by May, there will probably only be two options, a New Deal or No Deal.......

 

[tim cahill]

Fine, but who cares. I want my country out of the E.U., I don’t care at all about who else stays or goes......

I’m yet to hear a convincing reason why we’re better off out. Please tell me yours, there’s got to be something positive about this if 17odd million voted for this mess, right?!

Surely?

 

[Joey66]

Once the confidence vote has been won by May, there will probably only be two options, a New Deal or No Deal.......

We need a temporary PM she should stand down to get a new deal....
She sounded no different in PMQs today....

 

[peteblue]

I’m yet to hear a convincing reason why we’re better off out. Please tell me yours, there’s got to be something positive about this if 17odd million voted for this mess, right?!

Surely?

I have done so on numerous occasions. I have yet to even see a reason for staying in the E.U., convincing or not.......

 

[Harryflashman]

We need a temporary PM she should stand down to get a new deal....
She sounded no different in PMQs today....

can’t that happening though , the tory rebel’s blew that vote of confidence , labour will lose that tonight so unless she quits she’s here for a while longer and let’s face it she’s not the quitting type .

Anyway joe you and @peteblue must be delighted with Gina Miller and the courts , none of that enemy of the people stuff they’ve stopped you getting what you both didn’t want.