Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Deleted member 28206]

*wakes up
*sees sky still hasn't fell
*laughs at hysteria

 

[Tree13]

Both sides have said there won't be renegotiations about the UK staying in. The EU can't afford to be seen to be weak.

If there is no renegotiation and we do leave, the EU will very likely collapse due to the sudden loss of the billions of pounds a year we put into it as a net contributor. Only Germany pays in more than we do, and the next biggest contributors after us are the Netherlands and France. those three countries are not going to agree to make up the shortfall created by the UK withdrawing all funding, because to do so will simply reinforce the pro-exit movements in those countries.

If as an alternative those three countries are asked to approve a renegotiation allowing the UK to be exempt from the free movement rules, I suspect they will take it.

 

[bring the ghost on]

To be honest mate I'd have voted to stay if the campaign for it focused on facts over fear mongering.

Very surprised that you didn't think the Brexit campaign (hello "breaking point") was driven by fear aswell.

 

[dead_soft]

Well what are you saying?

They've been indoctrinated, they're too thick to work it out for themselves? You wouldn't say that if they vote labour at the general election, so don't say (or infer it) now

Everyone was too thick to vote. This issue was way too complex and important to be given to a referendum

 

[Seanjd]

How patronising can you get?

Shameful comment. The overwhelming majority of those people have seen for themselves and voted accordingly. Some of them might have been taken in by some of the more extreme rhetroic, but don't tell others not to generalise and then do so yourself.

But they have. Do you disagree that for years working classes have been told that immigration is bad for their communities? How can you say they've seen for themselves and voted accordingly? I live in St Helens. Obviously, very working class, but low immigration numbers. Nearly 60% leave.

That's not seeing the damage of immigration and voting accordingly. That's listening to years and years of blaming of immigration from the press and politicians because their policies have done damage.

 

[bring the ghost on]

They've been indoctrinated, they're too thick to work it out for themselves?

The problem is lack of information, on both sides of the debate.

You have large portions of the press and the Leave campaign demonising immigrants.

Remain did nothing to dispell the myth, but that's hardly surprising when Cameron refers to immigrants collectively as "swarms".

It's not to say the working classes are racist, but the scare mongering has certainly worked, as evidenced by how they voted.

 

[bring the ghost on]

But they have. Do you disagree that for years working classes have been told that immigration is bad for their communities? How can you say they've seen for themselves and voted accordingly? I live in St Helens. Obviously, very working class, but low immigration numbers. Nearly 60% leave.

That's not seeing the damage of immigration and voting accordingly. That's listening to years and years of blaming of immigration from the press and politicians because their policies have done damage.

Correct this, it's an important distinction between fear of immigration (believed to be catastrophic) and the actual effects if immigration (largely positive).

 

[Alanbileysfeathercut]

I would go so far as say Scottish independence will happen in two years mate, the ironic thing about all this national fervor is that it has probably copper fastened the end of the United Kingdom.

Not sure about that.
think it was 55-45 to stay in the uk last time .
Depends what happens in the next few months or more .
The referendum will take two years probably,if the economy is more or less the same , will it benefit Scotland,who knows.

 

[Darth Vader]

Voting should be a privilege

Only people earning 50k a year or over should get a vote

 

[harry]

Very surprised that you didn't think the Brexit campaign (hello "breaking point") was driven by fear aswell.

So was the stay campaign, probably even more so.

 

[Neiler]

If there is no renegotiation and we do leave, the EU will very likely collapse due to the sudden loss of the billions of pounds a year we put into it as a net contributor. Only Germany pays in more than we do, and the next biggest contributors after us are the Netherlands and France. those three countries are not going to agree to make up the shortfall created by the UK withdrawing all funding, because to do so will simply reinforce the pro-exit movements in those countries.

If as an alternative those three countries are asked to approve a renegotiation allowing the UK to be exempt from the free movement rules, I suspect they will take it.

This is why i worry for Britain, the most logical thing to do is try and keep Britain in the common market, both for Britains sake and other economies linked to it. For example Britiain is Irelands biggest trade partner. However the issue now rather then a logical fiscal one may become political, if the European Union is to survive and maintain its power base it needs to preserve membership, to do that the likes of Bexits elsewhere need to be unattractive. As such my concern is that Britain is going to get a kicking from the EU on the way out the door i.e. tighter boarder controls on Brittish citizens entering Europe, Taxs on imports and exports, Customs, Tax on multinationals operating in the free market and excise and most significanlty not being allowed to operate in the free market in general.

With Britain gone, the European political agenda will shift to preserving membership, the only way to that, is leave Britain black and blue on the conditions of their departure.

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

If the figures I've seen are correct then the spread of votes for remain were mostly but younger people, and votes for out mostly by older people (50+). Those that voted leave don't actually have to live with the consequences of their decision, we, the younger generation do, and we by and large didn't want to leave. Nobody I know in my age group wanted to leave.

 

[Neiler]

Not sure about that.
think it was 55-45 to stay in the uk last time .
Depends what happens in the next few months or more .
The referendum will take two years probably,if the economy is more or less the same , will it benefit Scotland,who knows.

Its a hell of a card that was dealt yesterday and Scotland i think would significantly benifit from EU memebership on its own speed. Equally it would really suit the EU to have Scottish fishing and energy under its umbrella. I think the committemt they would get on structural funding would be significant as a result.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

But they have. Do you disagree that for years working classes have been told that immigration is bad for their communities? How can you say they've seen for themselves and voted accordingly? I live in St Helens. Obviously, very working class, but low immigration numbers. Nearly 60% leave.

That's not seeing the damage of immigration and voting accordingly. That's listening to years and years of blaming of immigration from the press and politicians because their policies have done damage.

So their concerns are only justified if they have a certain % of immigrants living close by?

There was me thinking people were voting on what they think's best for the nation AND their kids...

 

[Darth Vader]

If the figures I've seen are correct then the spread of votes for remain were mostly but younger people, and votes for out mostly by older people (50+). Those that voted leave don't actually have to live with the consequences of their decision, we, the younger generation do, and we by and large didn't want to leave. Nobody I know in my age group wanted to leave.

That is correct

18-25 year olds largely voted remain

All the old racists from backward towns like Burnley voted out