Current Affairs EU In or Out

[orchard]

Or he's just getting air-time after the important event?

The quotes from Corbyn in that article sum up what an utter pleb he is. Jumping round telling everyone what a shocker it is after the fact rather than actually raising awareness of the problem before hand. Too busy showing how hip and down with the yoof he is, is our Jeremy. Exactly like the Brexit referendum again.

 

[orchard]

Anyone who voted for this, of any party affiliation, is an enemy of democracy.

Quite. I've said it before, but she's like a petulant Alexander and the Gordian knot. Slicing and slashing away at our culture simply to get her own way and not have to deal with the real issues at hand.

 

[zzr45]

Or he's just getting air-time after the important event?

Or is he just an ineffective opposition leader caught up in his own cult of personality? As noted when it actually gets down to the brass tacks of being a politician, whether it be this vote or the Brexit vote he has a track record of disappearing down a hole and not actually doing a lot to raise awareness of the issues. I'd expect someone as vehemently opposed to this bill as he claims to be calling in all his media appearance favours from the election and getting his message out there. Instead he'd rather play at being celebrity and go to film premieres.

 

[orchard]

Hardly any of the media informed the public of the true implications of these two exceptional power-grabs, they weren't going to give him a platform.

Or is he just an ineffective opposition leader caught up in his own cult of personality? As noted when it actually gets down to the brass tacks of being a politician, whether it be this vote or the Brexit vote he has a track record of disappearing down a hole and not actually doing a lot to raise awareness of the issues. I'd expect someone as vehemently opposed to this bill as he claims to be calling in all his media appearance favours from the election and getting his message out there. Instead he'd rather play at being celebrity and go to film premieres.

 

[orchard]

Carwyn Jones' plan to block the UK Government's controversial EU Bill
The First Minister has recommended the Assembly refuses consent for the landmark EU Withdrawal Bill

The Welsh, Scottish and UK governments are on a collision course over the controversial EU withdrawal bill that gives sweeping powers to Theresa May's inner circle.

Carwyn Jones and Nicola Sturgeon have both taken taken the first step towards blocking the fiercely controversial EU Withdrawal Bill.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/carwyn-jones-plan-block-uk-13610358

 

[joey_macmo]

With all this talk of German cars it would be handy if the national motor show was taking place in Frankfurt this week & the head of their automotive association had done an interview outlining their position.

"It's up to the (UK) Prime Minister to shift her position," he said.

"Britain is very important for us, but the EU27 is even more important for us, as a market and as a political concept...
So we do the utmost to support anyone who keeps Britain as close as possible to the EU.

"But if you ask me for priorities: keeping the EU27 together is even more important than to keep Britain nearby, so let the British government be convinced that they have to build a bridge."

He said that a cliff-edge Brexit would "change everything", including German industrial investment in the UK.

"If we will fall down the cliff edge, it would be very critical for all sides, also damage part of our concepts in Britain and elsewhere, but to be clear, the higher price would be paid by the British."

Or how about the executive Vice President of Toyota

"A few months ago the UK government was saying, 'We're sure we'll be able to negotiate (a deal) without any trade tax,'" Leroy said in an interview at the Frankfurt car show. "They are not saying that any more."

He added: "It's clear that if we have to wait two to three more years to have a clarity on this topic, we will have a big question-mark about our future investment in the country."

"We will not close the plant tomorrow morning, but if in two to three years we have to decide some future investments, of course the key point will be the competitiveness of this plant in future."

Leroy declined to say how much of the upgrade funds had already been spent, stressing that considerably larger sums would be needed to launch production of any new vehicles.

Without further investment, Burnaston's output "will probably start to decline before we will be able to take a decision," Leroy said. "The longer we have to wait, the more potential there is to move to another factory."

 

[peteblue]

Meanwhile, the great and the good in Brussels are now openly planning for a European Army, forcing the remainder of the EU to join the Euro and promoting pan European MEP's. It's very illuminating listening to Juncker and Verhofstadt claiming credit for all this great work they've done, while giving none to the actual national governments. It was interesting listening to one of them raising the issue of Russia and its belligerence in its war games, a small matter I raised yesterday, and of course the answer was an EU army, which all of the Remainers on here said would never happen......

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I've no problem with an EU army to be honest Pete, especially if we regard the primary purpose of an army is to maintain peace. Incidentally, I thought you might find this interesting regarding the impact of migrants on employment (source two of the leading figures on migration in the country).

"When I was business secretary there were up to nine studies that we looked at that took in all the academic evidence. It showed that immigration had very little impact on wages or employment. But this was suppressed by the Home Office under Theresa May, because the results were inconvenient.

Vince Cable, leader of the Liberal Democrats, in a statement on September 6.

There is quite a lot of evidence that if we have too many low-skilled workers coming in, one of the effects is to depress the wages of those at the bottom end of the wage scale.

Damian Green, first secretary of state and minister for the Cabinet Office, speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on September 7.

The effect of immigration on wages and employment has been the subject of numerous studies, both in the UK and internationally. Research for the UK points to no convincingly large negative effects of immigration on average wages of British-born workers. This is largely in line with the predominant (though not uncontroversial) finding of studies done in other countries.

Some studies have pointed to the possibility of effects on the distribution of wages, holding wage growth back at the lower end and pushing wages up at the higher end. However, authors of studies which have suggested this have emphasised that the negative effects are small. While recent immigrants as a whole have typically been highly qualified relative to the skill level of the UK labour force, the location of such effects may have to do with the fact that they tend to work initially in lower paid jobs.

Evidence for harmful effects of immigration on employment is also slim. Most studies have failed to find clear evidence of a link.

One exception, sometimes cited by advocates of tighter immigration policy, is a 2012 Migration Advisory Committee report that found some association in particular of non-EU migration with employment of non-immigrants during one period of downturn, though the study itself emphasises that the evidence is not very robust.

Overall the Migration Advisory Committee itself concluded: “Evidence to date suggests little effect on employment and unemployment of UK-born workers, but that wages for the low paid may be lowered as a result of migration, although again this effect is modest.”

Impervious political debate
Despite the weak evidence, harmful labour market effects continue to be emphasised in political debate, for example by Theresa May both when she was home secretary and now as prime minister. (The same is true in the US).

Some may feel it is obvious that the expansion of labour supply that follows from immigration must harm competing workers. But this ignores the many ways in which immigration can also lead to expanded labour demand – through immigrants’ spending on goods produced locally, through the complementary skills they bring into the country, through encouraging changes in the pattern of production or encouraging inflow of capital, and so on. For all of these reasons, it is quite compatible with standard economic theory to find that immigration might have little or no effect on wages or employment.

Verdict
Vince Cable’s understanding of the preponderance of academic evidence on the labour market effects of immigration is accurate. There is little persuasive evidence that immigration has substantial harmful effects on average UK wages or employment. Damian Green is correct to identify effects on the least well paid as being of greatest concern but evidence suggests these effects are not large.

Review
Jonathan Wadsworth, professor of economics at Royal Holloway, University of London

According to standard economic textbooks, the purported effects of immigration on the existing workforce are undoubtedly negative – like the minimum wage. How so when the academic evidence – as accurately outlined in this fact check – does indeed suggest that, contrary to standard texts, immigration does not have any large significant effect on employment either in aggregate or among groups supposedly most at risk? Nor does immigration appear to depress wages of native-born Britons much. The recently resurrected study, cited by politicians and the media could not determine whether its findings of a small negative wage effect apply to UK-born people or immigrants or both.

Politicians and the media making disingenuous, selective or, at best, misinformed interpretations of academic studies do not help. There is also a lot of dross out there and sifting through it is not always easy, for anyone, politicians and the media included. Ultimately, continued dialogue and engagement between academia and the outside world can only help understanding and inform policy making."

 

[Joey66]

I've no problem with an EU army to be honest Pete, especially if we regard the primary purpose of an army is to maintain peace. Incidentally, I thought you might find this interesting regarding the impact of migrants on employment (source two of the leading figures on migration in the country).

"When I was business secretary there were up to nine studies that we looked at that took in all the academic evidence. It showed that immigration had very little impact on wages or employment. But this was suppressed by the Home Office under Theresa May, because the results were inconvenient.

Vince Cable, leader of the Liberal Democrats, in a statement on September 6.

There is quite a lot of evidence that if we have too many low-skilled workers coming in, one of the effects is to depress the wages of those at the bottom end of the wage scale.

Damian Green, first secretary of state and minister for the Cabinet Office, speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on September 7.

The effect of immigration on wages and employment has been the subject of numerous studies, both in the UK and internationally. Research for the UK points to no convincingly large negative effects of immigration on average wages of British-born workers. This is largely in line with the predominant (though not uncontroversial) finding of studies done in other countries.

Some studies have pointed to the possibility of effects on the distribution of wages, holding wage growth back at the lower end and pushing wages up at the higher end. However, authors of studies which have suggested this have emphasised that the negative effects are small. While recent immigrants as a whole have typically been highly qualified relative to the skill level of the UK labour force, the location of such effects may have to do with the fact that they tend to work initially in lower paid jobs.

Evidence for harmful effects of immigration on employment is also slim. Most studies have failed to find clear evidence of a link.

One exception, sometimes cited by advocates of tighter immigration policy, is a 2012 Migration Advisory Committee report that found some association in particular of non-EU migration with employment of non-immigrants during one period of downturn, though the study itself emphasises that the evidence is not very robust.

Overall the Migration Advisory Committee itself concluded: “Evidence to date suggests little effect on employment and unemployment of UK-born workers, but that wages for the low paid may be lowered as a result of migration, although again this effect is modest.”

Impervious political debate
Despite the weak evidence, harmful labour market effects continue to be emphasised in political debate, for example by Theresa May both when she was home secretary and now as prime minister. (The same is true in the US).

Some may feel it is obvious that the expansion of labour supply that follows from immigration must harm competing workers. But this ignores the many ways in which immigration can also lead to expanded labour demand – through immigrants’ spending on goods produced locally, through the complementary skills they bring into the country, through encouraging changes in the pattern of production or encouraging inflow of capital, and so on. For all of these reasons, it is quite compatible with standard economic theory to find that immigration might have little or no effect on wages or employment.

Verdict
Vince Cable’s understanding of the preponderance of academic evidence on the labour market effects of immigration is accurate. There is little persuasive evidence that immigration has substantial harmful effects on average UK wages or employment. Damian Green is correct to identify effects on the least well paid as being of greatest concern but evidence suggests these effects are not large.

Review
Jonathan Wadsworth, professor of economics at Royal Holloway, University of London

According to standard economic textbooks, the purported effects of immigration on the existing workforce are undoubtedly negative – like the minimum wage. How so when the academic evidence – as accurately outlined in this fact check – does indeed suggest that, contrary to standard texts, immigration does not have any large significant effect on employment either in aggregate or among groups supposedly most at risk? Nor does immigration appear to depress wages of native-born Britons much. The recently resurrected study, cited by politicians and the media could not determine whether its findings of a small negative wage effect apply to UK-born people or immigrants or both.

Politicians and the media making disingenuous, selective or, at best, misinformed interpretations of academic studies do not help. There is also a lot of dross out there and sifting through it is not always easy, for anyone, politicians and the media included. Ultimately, continued dialogue and engagement between academia and the outside world can only help understanding and inform policy making."

In bold cannot take any interest in a leader who sold our post office far to cheaply if thats all the LIB DEMS have as a leader they should fold up!
a load of Remoaners!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It was a reasonably detailed examination of his claim Joe by a couple who have appeared in pretty much every academic and government project on migration of note. I'm sure as a reasonable man you would accept facts, regardless of where they came from?

 

[edge]

Been having a bit of a look at what the Tories have been up to with these votes, firmly in the out of EU camp , but taking away that side of it , not at all happy with this , especially the fact that they will have an aurtomatic majority on any committee, which hasn't ever been the case before.

 

[peteblue]

It was a reasonably detailed examination of his claim Joe by a couple who have appeared in pretty much every academic and government project on migration of note. I'm sure as a reasonable man you would accept facts, regardless of where they came from?

I've said before Bruce that I don't really have a problem with immigration, certainly not those that actually come here to work. The open door policy that allows the workshy to turn up is another matter. Immigration will always continue and I would hope that we welcome those that arrive to contribute and make a living.....

 

[peteblue]

I've no problem with an EU army to be honest Pete, especially if we regard the primary purpose of an army is to maintain peace. Incidentally, I thought you might find this interesting regarding the impact of migrants on employment (source two of the leading figures on migration in the country).

"When I was business secretary there were up to nine studies that we looked at that took in all the academic evidence. It showed that immigration had very little impact on wages or employment. But this was suppressed by the Home Office under Theresa May, because the results were inconvenient.

Vince Cable, leader of the Liberal Democrats, in a statement on September 6.

There is quite a lot of evidence that if we have too many low-skilled workers coming in, one of the effects is to depress the wages of those at the bottom end of the wage scale.

Damian Green, first secretary of state and minister for the Cabinet Office, speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on September 7.

The effect of immigration on wages and employment has been the subject of numerous studies, both in the UK and internationally. Research for the UK points to no convincingly large negative effects of immigration on average wages of British-born workers. This is largely in line with the predominant (though not uncontroversial) finding of studies done in other countries.

Some studies have pointed to the possibility of effects on the distribution of wages, holding wage growth back at the lower end and pushing wages up at the higher end. However, authors of studies which have suggested this have emphasised that the negative effects are small. While recent immigrants as a whole have typically been highly qualified relative to the skill level of the UK labour force, the location of such effects may have to do with the fact that they tend to work initially in lower paid jobs.

Evidence for harmful effects of immigration on employment is also slim. Most studies have failed to find clear evidence of a link.

One exception, sometimes cited by advocates of tighter immigration policy, is a 2012 Migration Advisory Committee report that found some association in particular of non-EU migration with employment of non-immigrants during one period of downturn, though the study itself emphasises that the evidence is not very robust.

Overall the Migration Advisory Committee itself concluded: “Evidence to date suggests little effect on employment and unemployment of UK-born workers, but that wages for the low paid may be lowered as a result of migration, although again this effect is modest.”

Impervious political debate
Despite the weak evidence, harmful labour market effects continue to be emphasised in political debate, for example by Theresa May both when she was home secretary and now as prime minister. (The same is true in the US).

Some may feel it is obvious that the expansion of labour supply that follows from immigration must harm competing workers. But this ignores the many ways in which immigration can also lead to expanded labour demand – through immigrants’ spending on goods produced locally, through the complementary skills they bring into the country, through encouraging changes in the pattern of production or encouraging inflow of capital, and so on. For all of these reasons, it is quite compatible with standard economic theory to find that immigration might have little or no effect on wages or employment.

Verdict
Vince Cable’s understanding of the preponderance of academic evidence on the labour market effects of immigration is accurate. There is little persuasive evidence that immigration has substantial harmful effects on average UK wages or employment. Damian Green is correct to identify effects on the least well paid as being of greatest concern but evidence suggests these effects are not large.

Review
Jonathan Wadsworth, professor of economics at Royal Holloway, University of London

According to standard economic textbooks, the purported effects of immigration on the existing workforce are undoubtedly negative – like the minimum wage. How so when the academic evidence – as accurately outlined in this fact check – does indeed suggest that, contrary to standard texts, immigration does not have any large significant effect on employment either in aggregate or among groups supposedly most at risk? Nor does immigration appear to depress wages of native-born Britons much. The recently resurrected study, cited by politicians and the media could not determine whether its findings of a small negative wage effect apply to UK-born people or immigrants or both.

Politicians and the media making disingenuous, selective or, at best, misinformed interpretations of academic studies do not help. There is also a lot of dross out there and sifting through it is not always easy, for anyone, politicians and the media included. Ultimately, continued dialogue and engagement between academia and the outside world can only help understanding and inform policy making."

In respect of an EU army, if they want one then I'm fine with that also. I didn't want an EU army that subsumed the U.K. Armed Forces and its nuclear deterrent. Once they have established it they will attempt to start throwing their weight around, they will end up poking a stick at Russia. We are much better out of it....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I've said before Bruce that I don't really have a problem with immigration, certainly not those that actually come here to work. The open door policy that allows the workshy to turn up is another matter. Immigration will always continue and I would hope that we welcome those that arrive to contribute and make a living.....

The current free movement of people doesn't allow that though. We have the power as we speak to not only deny access to welfare for new EU migrants for a period, but also to remove them if they haven't found work in 6 months. Those powers have existed for years.

 

[abelard]

I've said before Bruce that I don't really have a problem with immigration, certainly not those that actually come here to work. The open door policy that allows the workshy to turn up is another matter. Immigration will always continue and I would hope that we welcome those that arrive to contribute and make a living.....

weren't you just harping awhile back about how immigrants coming here to work is what's driving down wages though?

Quite the opposite. Getting out from this low wage importation of Labour will help our people who need the most help. I've been disgusted that neither Labour nor the unions have railed against low wage imports......

they do sound like proper [poor language removed], those foreigners - simultaneously lowering wages for our boys by working like dogs for a pittance, while also lazing about watching telly all day on benefits and using our NHS like some sort of luxury resort!!!