Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Bruce Wayne]

Just don't ever say that votes were cast based upon incorrect assumptions.

 

[Tubey]

The problem though Bruce is the EU import tariffs, whereby you have to pay import duty and import VAT (plus VAT on import duty). I've said before, the EU is based on keeping everyone else out. We can do trade deals, but there is no way around the EU barriers, which is why we no longer eat New Zealand lamb, which anyone over 50 will remember that we used to have every week....

The hell is that about? I ate it last week ffs

Don't just bloody lie!

 

[peteblue]

The hell is that about? I ate it last week ffs

Don't just bloody lie!

Indeed, it was incorrect....prior to us joining, the U.K. imported nearly 90% of NZ lamb export, now it is about 20%...it was a poor example.....

 

[Old Blue 2]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/surveys/info...vidualsurveys/internationalpassengersurveyips

"The results are primarily used to:

• measure the impact of travel expenditure on the UK economy
• estimate the numbers and characteristics of migrants into and out of the UK
• provide information about international tourism and how it has changed over time"

Oh come on, Bruce. An estimate is a forward projection, NOT a present or past actuality.

There is a difference...

 

[Old Blue 2]

I've really no idea what the 'leave me alone brigade' comment is supposed to mean.....

If you read it in its full context, it will become clear. But I will explain. It is my considered opinion (and it has also been expressed by others in this thread way back, that a lot of remain voters simply voted remain because they were afraid of moving away from the 'status quo'. In other words, resistant to change, fear (for want of a better word) of something different.

 

[Alan Whittle]

Like saying Leave voters voted Leave because it would make a nice change.

 

[peteblue]

If you read it in its full context, it will become clear. But I will explain. It is my considered opinion (and it has also been expressed by others in this thread way back, that a lot of remain voters simply voted remain because they were afraid of moving away from the 'status quo'. In other words, resistant to change, fear (for want of a better word) of something different.

I think this affected a good proportion of Remain voters. In some respects it's not a bad thing, not all change is good, but as it was mainly the same people who voted In during the 70's and now voted Leave, it would be interesting to see in twenty or thirty years if those that voted Remain last year would then vote to rejoin......

 

[peteblue]

Like saying Leave voters voted Leave because it would make a nice change.

I think the real point is that it was quite easy to vote to do nothing, it took a little more bravery to vote for a massive change......

 

[Alan Whittle]

I think the real point is that it was quite easy to vote to do nothing, it took a little more bravery to vote for a massive change......

Or it took a considered view of weighing up the benefits of membership or a thoughtless leap in the dark to think anything must be better than this.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Oh come on, Bruce. An estimate is a forward projection, NOT a present or past actuality.

There is a difference...

It's what the home office uses.

 

[Old Blue 2]

1. That was the biggest issue for many voters in determining what to vote for, I think everybody seems to be able to figure that out except you. Theresa May said it, Farage said it, everybody said it.



2. Never claimed to be the biggest issue. Remain voters simply claimed it to be a ridiculous lie, which it has proven to be.



3. This is a huge issue created by the vote. Do you think this should just be ignored. There are many seperate issues that are massively important to both leave and remain voters. Do you expect to just pick one thing and forget about everything else. It's not my fault the leave vote came with a myriad of ridiculous problems that all need to be fixed now, you can't just pick one and ignore the rest sorry.



4. Yes, you are highlighting issues that caused the leave vote, issues that are caused by the leave vote as well as lies told by the leave campaign. Have you seen the light?



5. You did though, you made up that I said every single one of the 17 million leave voters voted that way because of immigration. I never said that. Then you started ranting about it.



6. I guess the old saying is correct, simple minds are easily amused.



7. It is more complicated than that though. Countries the UK are openly courting for free trade agreements have come out and said they want immigration restrictions lifted. So if our big plan is ditching the EU and replacing it with the Commonwealth and it comes with more immigration, do you think this will go down well, considering that for a lot of people (yes, not you and not every single person), the biggest issue in deciding what to vote for was immigration?

1. That was one of many issues. You cannot claim definitively was the sole reason. That is not logical.

2. For some on here it was trumpeted as so.

3. A vote to leave necessarily meant that a whole slew of things would be up for negotiation. Are you surprised about that?

4. Lies were told by both sides, and well you know it. From Osbourne to the head of the Bank of England!

5. No bobby, I didn't. I simply challenged you on this assertion in your post #20194, page 1347: "...but I don't think you speak for the majority of leavers, who for them, their vote meant stopping immigration...." These are your words, not mine. And I didn't rant (you seem to have a thing about the word 'rant').

6. I thought the discussion was going along on a reasonable basis. Pity you had to start denigrating me. I will not do the same to you.

7. You have asked for my opinion on this one, bobby, so I'll give it, but it is no more valid than anyone else's. It's difficult to see exactly what the future holds, and that applies across the complete raft of issues. As far as trade agreements go, I believe it should be a case of making those agreements outwith countries insisting on free movement of people. I do not believe the two are compatible (my opinion again). I bellieve the stance of the Government, post-Brexit, (and again, it's only my view and it may be incorrect) is that there is no automatic right to just walk into the UK (such as is the case with EU citizens at present) any more. There are underlying issues connected to that, which have been expressed in this thread previously. Cheap labour from certain countries driving down wages, for example, which the employers are all too happy to do, as it means more dosh goes into their arse pockets. A sensitive subject no doubt, and I cannot claim to have the answer. And there are undoubtedly others. Farming industry, fishing industry, exchange rates, etc.. It's complicated, but then life has always been so...

 

[Old Blue 2]

It's what the home office uses.

I would suggest, Bruce, as a future projection. It cannot change the past, but can make a future prediction. Just like Mark Carney did at the Bank of England. Oh hell, he got it horribly wrong...

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

If you read it in its full context, it will become clear. But I will explain. It is my considered opinion (and it has also been expressed by others in this thread way back, that a lot of remain voters simply voted remain because they were afraid of moving away from the 'status quo'. In other words, resistant to change, fear (for want of a better word) of something different.

I think the use of the word fear is wrong, I think plenty of people were just happy with the 'status quo' and could see that the UK had done well post the crash and there was simply no benefit to leaving the EU at this point, in fact it was virtually universally agreed that there'd be an economic cost to leaving, certainly in the short term. Most Remain voters simply didn't see what was to be tangibly gained from leaving the EU.

My personal view that the 'taking back control' and sovereignty arguments were largely meaningless rhetoric in terms of what tangible difference either would make to my life and that of my kids.

 

[Old Blue 2]

I think the use of the word fear is wrong, I think plenty of people were just happy with the 'status quo' and could see that the UK had done well post the crash and there was simply no benefit to leaving the EU at this point, in fact it was virtually universally agreed that there'd be an economic cost to leaving, certainly in the short term. Most Remain voters simply didn't see what was to be tangibly gained from leaving the EU.

My personal view that the 'taking back control' and sovereignty arguments were largely meaningless rhetoric in terms of what tangible difference either would make to my life and that of my kids.

Good post, FLHD, and I agree when you say you don't see what tangible difference it potentially makes to your life and that of your kids. We didn't (well I didn't) see tangible differences when we voted 'In' to a Common Market all those decades ago, but it evolved over the decades to a massive political (and potentially military) union, which was certainly not on the table in the 1970s.

What I genuinely hope comes out of the present situation is that the UK goes foward with the best possible deals across the board, and we can hopefully see a better future, whatever the final negotiations deliver. I don't want the UK to tank, as I believe nobody else does.

And I did qualify the word 'fear' by saying 'for want of a better word'.

Now I'm off to see how my home county, Lancashire, are doing against Essex. It would do my box in if Essex win the County Championship!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I would suggest, Bruce, as a future projection. It cannot change the past, but can make a future prediction. Just like Mark Carney did at the Bank of England. Oh hell, he got it horribly wrong...

May has used it to emphasise migration figures and underpin her policies. No projections.