Current Affairs EU In or Out

[TheFinnFan]

It is more, it is about the mechanisms by which democracy is determined, how the 'will of the people' is managed and coerced or guided. The cogs of the political machinery are operated outside of their purpose and remit.

They are fighting against the change. When their own system worked against their agenda theyve unleashed this unpresented attack on democracy.

 

[Joey66]

Only the EU growth forecasts aren't for zero growth Joey, but don't let fact get in the way mate

no at the moment its 0.5 I give you that not quite zero jus 1/2 a % out fact - that's if you can believe an organisation who can not audit its books properly!

 

[JonS]

Which is one of the points I was making. And again, I don't believe this was ineptitude or mismanagement. The real reason the referendum took place was for Cameron to appease the right wing in his party and the electorate to retain power, not for democracy to take its course. It was and is a sham and designed to be so to maintain the status quo. The patronisation of the electorate bit them all on the backside.

It doesn't matter why it took place IMO, only that is has in that it is important for the public to be able to decide on important constitutional issues like this (particularly when they haven't been given much of a say before now).

It would be similarly important to have a referendum if there was significant demand to become a republic rather than a monarchy say as that would also be an important constitutional issue.

 

[Joey66]

Is that a young John major stood right of the flag?lol

Pannick on the streets of London!

 

[Joey66]

But what about Bilderberg Trilateral fume Freemason elites rigged Pukka Pies Clinton Foundation Diversity One World Government #Pizzagate emails? And working families? Or does Brexit mean Brexit?

The unpredictable creates a symphony of experiences. You and I are Dreamweavers of the Quantum Soup. The totality is approaching a tipping point.

google any fact and it give you different answers ok!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Aren't you just making my point Bruce that "the people are stupid and can't be trusted". It's very dangerous to believe that IMO.

And is it any different in a normal election. People vote without understanding economic intricacies and such like. But is their vote any less valid for that?

I would go further and say that I trust the opinion of the people who are voting based on their feelings, perceptions and extrapolations of those more than I do of those who profess to understand everything and which way the economy is going (which IMO they don't understand as much as they think they do)

Well it's hardly an ideal way to decide important things, is it? Would you be happy if your surgeon was operating on your wife and went out into the waiting room to ask what to do next? I know it's an isolated example, but the famous caller to James O'Brien who fervently wanted to take back control but then couldn't name a single EU law he wanted to repeal. It's hardly infallible logic is it?

People often prattle on about voting being something people died to give us and so on, with that line of thought generally then followed through by suggesting we have to vote. I'd change things and suggest you have a duty to ensure you're as well informed as possible before you vote, and if you readily accept you're ignorant of the issues then keep your pen in your pocket.

It would be slightly more palatable if we could at least rely on politicians to be honest during campaigns so that at least people had decent information to turn to, but that doesn't happen. I've said in another thread that I feel we need some kind of regulator to fact check everything that's said during a campaign, and forced retractions made when lies are issued. At the moment it's a nonsense.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

no at the moment its 0.5 I give you that not quite zero jus 1/2 a % out fact - that's if you can believe an organisation who can not audit its books properly!

Joe, you've been wrong more times on this thread than the EU tends to be. Should we discount all you say on the same grounds?

 

[magicjuan]

It doesn't matter why it took place IMO, only that is has in that it is important for the public to be able to decide on important constitutional issues like this (particularly when they haven't been given much of a say before now).

It would be similarly important to have a referendum if there was significant demand to become a republic rather than a monarchy say as that would also be an important constitutional issue.

It does matter. It matters because the coralling of opinion and how the process is managed is in the hands of people with motives other than the carrying out of a democratic process.

 

[The Cowboy]

Well it's hardly an ideal way to decide important things, is it? Would you be happy if your surgeon was operating on your wife and went out into the waiting room to ask what to do next? I know it's an isolated example, but the famous caller to James O'Brien who fervently wanted to take back control but then couldn't name a single EU law he wanted to repeal. It's hardly infallible logic is it?

People often prattle on about voting being something people died to give us and so on, with that line of thought generally then followed through by suggesting we have to vote. I'd change things and suggest you have a duty to ensure you're as well informed as possible before you vote, and if you readily accept you're ignorant of the issues then keep your pen in your pocket.

It would be slightly more palatable if we could at least rely on politicians to be honest during campaigns so that at least people had decent information to turn to, but that doesn't happen. I've said in another thread that I feel we need some kind of regulator to fact check everything that's said during a campaign, and forced retractions made when lies are issued. At the moment it's a nonsense.

A surgeon is a highly skilled, highly qualified professional. MPs are anything but, and frankly, I'd trust the opinion of a passer-by in the street ahead of any politician's.

 

[magicjuan]

Well it's hardly an ideal way to decide important things, is it? Would you be happy if your surgeon was operating on your wife and went out into the waiting room to ask what to do next? I know it's an isolated example, but the famous caller to James O'Brien who fervently wanted to take back control but then couldn't name a single EU law he wanted to repeal. It's hardly infallible logic is it?

People often prattle on about voting being something people died to give us and so on, with that line of thought generally then followed through by suggesting we have to vote. I'd change things and suggest you have a duty to ensure you're as well informed as possible before you vote, and if you readily accept you're ignorant of the issues then keep your pen in your pocket.

It would be slightly more palatable if we could at least rely on politicians to be honest during campaigns so that at least people had decent information to turn to, but that doesn't happen. I've said in another thread that I feel we need some kind of regulator to fact check everything that's said during a campaign, and forced retractions made when lies are issued. At the moment it's a nonsense.

Including campaign funding, which, despite being investigated by a number of police forces, has fallem off the media radar.

 

[Joey66]

Well it's hardly an ideal way to decide important things, is it? Would you be happy if your surgeon was operating on your wife and went out into the waiting room to ask what to do next? I know it's an isolated example, but the famous caller to James O'Brien who fervently wanted to take back control but then couldn't name a single EU law he wanted to repeal. It's hardly infallible logic is it?

People often prattle on about voting being something people died to give us and so on, with that line of thought generally then followed through by suggesting we have to vote. I'd change things and suggest you have a duty to ensure you're as well informed as possible before you vote, and if you readily accept you're ignorant of the issues then keep your pen in your pocket.

It would be slightly more palatable if we could at least rely on politicians to be honest during campaigns so that at least people had decent information to turn to, but that doesn't happen. I've said in another thread that I feel we need some kind of regulator to fact check everything that's said during a campaign, and forced retractions made when lies are issued. At the moment it's a nonsense.

LBC radio James O'Brien - I thought it was you ringing in the other day Brucie two of the wettest liberals on the radio lol
hes like you never gives an answer has the biggest google machine in his studio - did he offer you a job as co presenter?lol

 

[Joey66]

Appreciate your interest and the time taken in forming your reply mate.

A couple of things. When reading Hansard it becomes obvious that despite a number of ammendments suggested at various stages of the Bill's progression (the Referendum Bill) the Government sought not to make the outcome of the referendum binding as they did in 2011. Why was that?

Secondly the claim in the leaflet "This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide" is a spurious claim as determined subsequently in the High Court and which is currently being debated in the Supreme Court.

I wish those MP's the majority of whom wish to remain in Europe had the courage of their convictions, and in the forthcoming votes on Brexit will vote in line with those convictions rather than being forced to vote for either because of the Party Whip or fear of electoral consequences created by the inevitable media driven storm that would occur thereafter.

while a few hundred yards down the road the whole parliment is debating the very subjectlol

 

[Joey66]

In troubled times like these are meant to be, maybe,

View attachment 32064

even better ask her who is bankrolling her case?

 

[Joey66]

People still putting more weight behind a leaflet than an act of parliament I see.

dont need weight 9 million £s in ready's is enough weight!

 

[abelard]

google any fact and it give you different answers ok!

Truth is the growth of sharing, and of us. If you have never experienced this paradigm on a cosmic scale, it can be difficult to self-actualize. We are in the midst of an archetypal unveiling of serenity that will remove the barriers to the Dreamscape itself.