joey_macmo
Player Valuation: £35m
Mad all these posts going on about democracy that advocate MPs totally ignoring their constituents wishes.
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Mad all these posts going on about democracy that advocate MPs totally ignoring their constituents wishes.
1966efc
Player Valuation: £20m
People still putting more weight behind a leaflet than an act of parliament I see.
Which Act of Parliament?
Gwladysstreetlad
Player Valuation: £50m
It's not a question of ignoring constituents wishes. It's looking at the wider picture. Whichever constituency your referring to is still based in the UK. Well the UK as a whole voted to leave and these people must learn to abide by the majority and respect the decision take by their fellow citizens.
joey_macmo
Player Valuation: £35m
"Must learn to abide by the majority"
That's an incredibly simple and incorrect view of how democracy works. According to you no MP should ever vote against the sitting government on any bill ever.
Which is obviously insane
Foot Long Hot Dog
Player Valuation: A packet of pork scratchings
Only the EU growth forecasts aren't for zero growth Joey, but don't let fact get in the way mate
Foot Long Hot Dog
Player Valuation: A packet of pork scratchings
Probably the one that made the referendum advisory and not binary.
magicjuan
Player Valuation: £60m
This has now widened into a discussion on the democratic process in this country, and as such has shown that process for the sham it is.
The referendum itself was wrapped up in barbed wire. The narrative itself wasn't allowed to develop organically, questions from answers weren't allowed to be developed and the information provided was controlled and narrowed by the media to be 90% immigration and 10% economic and democratic/sovereignty, generally.
The quesgion asked was ridiculous given the complexity with no unequivocal margin for such a constitutional decision.
Yes/No just doesn't work when the methodology of the consequences of the vote were never discussed, presented or outlined for the public to digest.
That there are legal challenges, questions on process and binding, prior to the nonsense discussions on economic affects and trade, displays such a (deliberate imho) amateurish approach to the management of the referendum it is bordering on contempt not only for the public but for the sovereignty and democratic process of parliament itself. It has held our political class and system up to be as big a joke as possible and as detached from society as is possible.
The naive trust and faith placed into the political system to manage the referendum in a correct and proper manner, with the best interests of the British public at its core, was misplaced, our 'leaders' just aren't capable or interested enough in others to have bothered to conduct the referendum in a clear, precise and concse manner. They ballsed it up. Deliberately, in my opinion, out of disdain for the decision being made for them. Their egos won't allow joe public any credit for understanding and as such lay tripwires, mines, backdoors throughout the process.
It won't happen, but the only way of salvaging the situation is to scrap it and start again, giving more consequential information and a broader scope for decision. If we want the people to decide, unequivocally, then they must be given the correct procedure and tools to do so. Neither leave nor remain have any mandate as I see it, but neither does the existing prime minister or parliament for that matter. Our system is so far beyond redemption that it needs replacing, with erm, a more true democratic process, free from external influence of the media corporate machinery. Utopian perhaps but we are going down the plughole at this point in time.
The referendum itself was wrapped up in barbed wire. The narrative itself wasn't allowed to develop organically, questions from answers weren't allowed to be developed and the information provided was controlled and narrowed by the media to be 90% immigration and 10% economic and democratic/sovereignty, generally.
The quesgion asked was ridiculous given the complexity with no unequivocal margin for such a constitutional decision.
Yes/No just doesn't work when the methodology of the consequences of the vote were never discussed, presented or outlined for the public to digest.
That there are legal challenges, questions on process and binding, prior to the nonsense discussions on economic affects and trade, displays such a (deliberate imho) amateurish approach to the management of the referendum it is bordering on contempt not only for the public but for the sovereignty and democratic process of parliament itself. It has held our political class and system up to be as big a joke as possible and as detached from society as is possible.
The naive trust and faith placed into the political system to manage the referendum in a correct and proper manner, with the best interests of the British public at its core, was misplaced, our 'leaders' just aren't capable or interested enough in others to have bothered to conduct the referendum in a clear, precise and concse manner. They ballsed it up. Deliberately, in my opinion, out of disdain for the decision being made for them. Their egos won't allow joe public any credit for understanding and as such lay tripwires, mines, backdoors throughout the process.
It won't happen, but the only way of salvaging the situation is to scrap it and start again, giving more consequential information and a broader scope for decision. If we want the people to decide, unequivocally, then they must be given the correct procedure and tools to do so. Neither leave nor remain have any mandate as I see it, but neither does the existing prime minister or parliament for that matter. Our system is so far beyond redemption that it needs replacing, with erm, a more true democratic process, free from external influence of the media corporate machinery. Utopian perhaps but we are going down the plughole at this point in time.
1966efc
Player Valuation: £20m
There was no separate Act to make it advisory. Such a thing doesn't exist. It became known as advisory when a couple of people noticed there was no clause added to it in order to make it binding.
That's why people keep mentioning the leaflet.
magicjuan
Player Valuation: £60m
'Leaflet'. Such a monumental constitutional decision based on 'a leaflet'. Therein lies the rub.
Foot Long Hot Dog
Player Valuation: A packet of pork scratchings
No, it was advisory as they didn't ensure that the Bill made it binding, like the AV referendum was in 2011.
If they wanted it to be legally binding then they should have worded it thus, they didn't - by choice.
abelard
Player Valuation: £35m
This is exactly how the rest of the world sees it.
The referendum was proposed and approved entirely on the assumption that only a safe minority would be crazy enough to actually vote yes. Even most Leave politicians didn't expect, or even actually want, a 'Yes' victory. It's now demonstrably clear that to them, Leave was no more than a ruse to serve their private intra-Party ambitions. Among the political class, both sides were so convinced that Remain would win that neither bothered to prepare otherwise; they both took for granted that Leave was so obviously disastrous and counterproductive that the impulse could be channeled and selfishly exploited without the remotest chance it would ever need to be confronted.
I expect this has been pointed out dozens of times here already, but I'm not going to go back through literally over a thousand pages in order to quote.
The Cowboy
Player Valuation: £60m
That's not a great example, as the MPs are not guided by a referendum for every act they must vote on.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
Re-running the referendum would be the thing that they would want to do, but doing that would be absolutely fraught with danger because they aren't competent enough to do it without cheating and there would be huge negative consequences for taking that course of action.
Also (and apologies for repeating myself) but the system doesn't need replacing, it just needs to have the corruption that is the party system cut out of it. If one looks at any problem in modern British politics, the chances are that the way parties are set up either is directly responsible for it, or at least makes it far worse.
Old Blue 2
Player Valuation: £40m
People still putting more weight behind a leaflet than an act of parliament I see.
Somebody put more than 9 million quid of our money behind a leaflet.
Or did you conveniently forget that...?
joey_macmo
Player Valuation: £35m
Crazy that we are 6 months on and these points still need to be made.
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