Does Moyes' reign look better with hindsight given the dismal performances of his successors?

[msb]

He did okay whilst he was here with fairly limited budgets. But to be honest it was never brilliant. First season of Martinez, whilst the players still had the Moyes work ethic was the best its been for many, many years.

When Moyes got wonga he wasted it at Man U and damaged himself badly at Sunderland and Spain. Retrieved a little of his reputation at Wham.

Grateful for what he did, in a way, but would never want him back.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Yeah because we’ve regressed! The top 6 aren’t better quality wise than the ones Moyes faced over his tenure. They may be relative to the rest of the league but the achievement in 05 by Moyes can’t just be written of as ‘the top 4 wasn’t as strong’. That season alone Moyes was up against a Chelsea side that until City held the prem record, the Arsenal Invincibles we’re defending champions, and a Liverpool side who would win the CL. Only City out of the top 6 now could compete with the top 4 in that period from 05-10.

Haha - some make out the current teams are better than Utd with Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez up front! Never mind Chelsea, who were the most relentless winning team I have seen, even if the football was more workmanlike. The high point for the Prem was when Wenger, Rafael, Mourinho and Ferguson all had truly world class teams.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

In many ways I appreciate what Moyes did in terms of making us relatively competitive, especially in comparison to large swathes of the 90s and the Smith Era. Can't say for sure he'd have fared better with a richer owner. My sense is he thrived by having total control and creating a bit of a family in a bunker aura around the squad. Right team for him at the time. He's not been able to do that anywhere else subsequently. In many ways he had limitations, but he did a decent job for us overall.

But, he ain't our Brian Clough though is he?

He did that at West Ham to a good extent. The players liked playing for him, and he transformed Arnautovic. If he was some unknown foreign coach West Ham would have kept him on. I really do not think they will do much better under Pelligrini, despite the ridiculous wages they are paying him.

Moyes is an old fashioned football man, in the good sense. But people would rather go for the “more successful” continental model than follow the British all-powerful manager approach. Personally I think the likes of Fergie, Clough and Stein show it is a better model, but it is no longer in vogue.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

He did that at West Ham to a good extent. The players liked playing for him, and he transformed Arnautovic. If he was some unknown foreign coach West Ham would have kept him on. I really do not think they will do much better under Pelligrini, despite the ridiculous wages they are paying him.

Moyes is an old fashioned football man, in the good sense. But people would rather go for the “more successful” continental model than follow the British all-powerful manager approach. Personally I think the likes of Fergie, Clough and Stein show it is a better model, but it is no longer in vogue.

I think the problem at West Ham for him were the owners who obviously didn't want to grant him additional control and so forth.

Ultimately he only took us so far and we need a new hero manager to really get his name into our folklore. I think the last one was Big Joe.

 

[steele]

I will always think of Moyes with great appreciation. He rescued Everton from relegation and established the club in top 6. Didn't have the money, but bought decent players; Arteta, Baines, Jagielka and Coleman. A great manager.

 

[marcus]

Moyes done well at Everton, good strong manager who was dedicated to the cause...

 

[MACCA75]

He did okay whilst he was here with fairly limited budgets. But to be honest it was never brilliant. First season of Martinez, whilst the players still had the Moyes work ethic was the best its been for many, many years.

When Moyes got wonga he wasted it at Man U and damaged himself badly at Sunderland and Spain. Retrieved a little of his reputation at Wham.

Grateful for what he did, in a way, but would never want him back.

Didn’t really waste the money at Man Utd though did he? Signed two players - Mata and Fellaini, both are still there.

Did much better than ‘okay’ at Everton.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

I think the problem at West Ham for him were the owners who obviously didn't want to grant him additional control and so forth.

Ultimately he only took us so far and we need a new hero manager to really get his name into our folklore. I think the last one was Big Joe.

True - and I think he would have been the right guy to help them progess. All the better for us if he goes somewhere else!

 

[Coggy]

Lest we forget.
Got a standing ovation when he left.
Fully deserved !
Great job with no money.
Martinez almost capitalised on his legacy.
Sadly nothing else followed from him or others.
Wonder how Davie would have done with all the money we have wasted ?
Good manager , I wish him the best.
Met him a couple of times in social environments , seems like a good bloke too !.

 

[JelavicBrate2]

Yes it does for all his many flaws we did have teams that tried hard and had the ability to at least physically compete with other sides. We finished 5th and got to the final in 2009, with only Saha as our main striker. We we very good at home and actually if you look at his latter years didn't lose away that often. Considering the money he was given he was great, I think his record against the RS and particularly the loss in the semi final turned a lot of fans against him. Also the loss to Wigan in the FA cup and poor performances from around 2011 to 2013, really hurt his legacy. But really when you look at the bigger picture it took City nearly 10 years to build a truly world class team, so even with money success isn't guaranteed they were very lucky in 2012 and 2014 to win the league.
Look at the RS they haven't won a trophy in 6 years and that was against Cardiff and they won that on penalties. They have lost 2 finals in the last 2 years so all their money and arrogance hasn't actually led to any success. The sad truth now is football is a mess, a lot of the players don't even care and will quite happily sulk and get a manager sacked if he challenges them, just like Moyes at United and Jose at Chelsea. There's no loyalty in the modern game, it's only the loyal fans who suffer. Perhaps 10 years ago players had better attitudes, you look at players like Baines, Jags, Cahill and a few others who did their jobs and treated both the club and fans with respect. Baines could of made a big deal out of Martinez, not letting him go to United, he just got on with his job. Nowadays even big clubs like Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea get messed about by players. Look at Ozil at Arsenal, just gives up in the big games because he can't be bothered.

 

[SMB]

A lot of people say he bottled the 2009 FA Cup, but we had the spine of our team injured for the final.... Jagielka crippled against City week after the semi, that [Poor language removed] Nolan done Arteta earlier on in the season, Yakubu was on fire till he done his knee... we did exceptionally well to get to the final imo. If Saha buries that header, Howard holds Lampards shot who knows?
He did a good job overall

 

[phildp]

Agree we didn't bottle final, just wasn't good enough. Would have be the equivalent of Chelsea losing Terry, Lampard & Drogba for the final (granted they had enough to replace them). It was actually the two semi finals he did bottle, granted we won the Utd one but the performance was abysmal (it was the fans that made that day the one it was).

 

[Stanley Parker]

Whilst we all would like to experience the winning feeling of beating the bigger sides away from home again/more regularly, placing so much importance on this is ridiculous in relation to the finishing positions he achieved and discussing his overall time as manager. It was a reasonably important aspect but no where near as important as actually competing in the League Table against the top clubs where he regularly had us punching above our weight in terms of resources.

We didn't beat any of them in 04/05 yet came 4th. Does that mean that the 4th placed finish isn't worth as much praise because we lost a few crunch games away? What about 13/14 under Martinez? That was an excellent season and the most important thing was our impressive 5th placed finish and record PL points total. We didn't beat any of the top 6 away then either though.

The knife to a gunfight mentality was a pathetic and negative attitude from Moyes in a lot of them games but there also seems to be a bit of re-writing of history going on to make out he was the cause of the lack of success in these games.

After winning in the August of 1992, we didn't win a single game at Old Trafford from that time until 2002 when he came in. We won once at Arsenal in that 10 year period, once at Chelsea and twice at Anfield. So how exactly is Moyes to blame for our repeated failures at those grounds? And coincidentally, since Moyes left, we have only managed a single victory at any of them. Against a 7th placed Man United side.

Nevertheless, Manchester United remain one of the Big Six Premier League clubs. And we did beat them at Old Trafford, under their new manager...David Moyes.

Saturday 22 September Arsenal v Everton; I wonder if Arsenal will have settled down under their new manager by then.

 

[dead_soft]

Personally I think the likes of Fergie, Clough and Stein show it is a better model, but it is no longer in vogue.

So you’re supporting your point by using 2 managers who died either 14 years ago or 30 years ago and a manager who retired 4 years ago after being appointed 30 years ago. Yeah, it’s a wonder people don’t think about how useful for the modern game British managers are

 

[dave n]

Moyes did a good job but in the end the football was stale and boring. The way he set up against the top six especially away from home was embarrassing. It was time to freshen things up and Manchester United coming in for him was a bonus