Does Moyes' reign look better with hindsight given the dismal performances of his successors?

[Eggsyblueskin]

Finished ahead of Liverpool once when they were CL champions and twice when they had Suarez in their team. Finished ahead of them 3 times in 11 seasons, actually put them out of a cup over 2 legs, and the last Everton manager to win a derby. No Everton manager has even laid a glove on them since.

Finishing ahead of the RS can only be counted as a success when they finish runners up.

 

[Mitch Ward's Minder]

A few good seasons when Irvine was his no 2 - like Gordon Le the nearly man....

We only really had good sides with Moyes when Irvine was involved in the first team. Every time he left we'd have a dip and then an upturn whenever he came back. Steve Round shouldn't have lasted as long as he did. We had a mean defence before he arrived and made us play zonal marking.

TBH it doesn't matter who the front man is, it's all about the backroom staff who work with the players every day. If the backroom staff are rubbish then you've got no hope. And for Moyes probably a big reason he was as successful as he was at EFC IMO was down to Irvine.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Finishing ahead of the RS can only be counted as a success when they finish runners up.

It was in relation to another poster who said his record v Liverpool gets better with the failure of every subsequent manager.

 

[joey_macmo]

Nevertheless, Manchester United remain one of the Big Six Premier League clubs. And we did beat them at Old Trafford, under their new manager...David Moyes.

Saturday 22 September Arsenal v Everton; I wonder if Arsenal will have settled down under their new manager by then.

If you’re talking about “the big six” then Moyes beat 2 of them away at a fairly decent rate.

Think it’s 5 times Moyes beat a side away from home that finished in the top 4. We haven’t done it since & iirc he was the first manager to do it since Royle.

I wouldn’t have him back in a month of Sunday’s but it’s a ridiculous line that people trot out that has little basis in fact.

 

[gonetomorrow]

The answer is yes - his reign does look better. Others must have thought he did OK too. He was appointed manager of Manchester United.

 

[Death]

Finished ahead of Liverpool once when they were CL champions and twice when they had Suarez in their team. Finished ahead of them 3 times in 11 seasons, actually put them out of a cup over 2 legs, and the last Everton manager to win a derby. No Everton manager has even laid a glove on them since.

#SAD

 

[Stanley Parker]

If you’re talking about “the big six” then Moyes beat 2 of them away at a fairly decent rate.

Think it’s 5 times Moyes beat a side away from home that finished in the top 4. We haven’t done it since & iirc he was the first manager to do it since Royle.

I wouldn’t have him back in a month of Sunday’s but it’s a ridiculous line that people trot out that has little basis in fact.

I simply said that Martinez achieved a win away to Manchester United, now one of the Big Six. But when Moyes was appointed Everton manager, they were one of the Big Four.

Chris Bascombe Daily Telegraph 03 Dec 2013;

Roberto Martinez has vowed to end the inferiority complex that has plagued Everton at the Premier League's toughest venues when he leads his side to Manchester United tomorrow.

It is 11 years and 47 league games since Everton won at one of Old Trafford, Anfield, Stamford Bridge or away to Arsenal.

Martinez’s predecessor David Moyes could not end the hoodoo and one quote from the current United boss especially rankled with his former supporters when he replaced Sir Alex Ferguson.

“I remember going there as a manager. You want to get out of Old Trafford alive, that used to be our saying,” Moyes said in July.

And, as I said, Martinez achieved that away win at Old Trafford.

 

[banno]

The answer is yes - his reign does look better. Others must have thought he did OK too. He was appointed manager of Manchester United.

Nowadays managers have to hit the ground running. Moyes hasn't lasted a season in any job since leaving Everton which points to the fact he needs time to have any effect on any team.............it becomes a lot easier with time and he had plenty of that at Everton

 

[degsy]

We only really had good sides with Moyes when Irvine was involved in the first team. Every time he left we'd have a dip and then an upturn whenever he came back. Steve Round shouldn't have lasted as long as he did. We had a mean defence before he arrived and made us play zonal marking.

TBH it doesn't matter who the front man is, it's all about the backroom staff who work with the players every day. If the backroom staff are rubbish then you've got no hope. And for Moyes probably a big reason he was as successful as he was at EFC IMO was down to Irvine.

And that fitness fella that Martinez got rid of

 

[Black Belt Jones]

We’d finished 17th, Rooney wanted out after the Euro’s and It wasn’t a happy camp. Despite limited funds, that second period 04/05 to 09!10 saw him at his best in the Everton dugout. We had some side, make no mistake about it. Craft, guile, skill and an identity about our play. But always came up short...,unlucky at El Madrigal and a few decent cup runs and a win on pens v a United Reserve side at Wembley took him to arguably his pinnacle. Should have been three if I remember that final, Lampard hit one that bounced back in play from the Premier Inn behind the goal and via the net.

That 04/05 season was unbelievable, good evidence that Moyes was a really strong man manager at that time. I remember driving down from Scotland in August time and listening to a pre-season radio program with pundit after pundit picking us for relegation. And it was hard to disagree, an appalling season before, Rooney's departure was depressing and caused huge upheaval, squad looked really average. No one went into that season with good feelings, and it seemed the die was cast in the first game when we were murdered by Arsenal at home 4-1. Yet he turned the entire situation on its head.

 

[Tubey]

Just find the whole concept of this question odd.

Nobody rational questions that what Moyes did initially was tremendous and he deserves all the credit in the world for his first five or so years here. He worked wonders.

However, he then proceeded to tread water and preserve his own reputation and further the notion of "plucky little Everton" instead of meaningfully try and push on after that.

So no, nothing that has happened recently changes those facts in hindsight. Moyes was both brilliant and lacklustre, depending on what part of his tenure you look at. The failure of Martinez and Koeman doesn't impact Moyes' failure - it simply means Martinez and Koeman were failures too.

To be blunt, the last good manager we had David Moyes, circa 2008. Since then we've had three bad managers, including Moyes from 2008 onward.

 

[GwladysPhil]

That 04/05 season was unbelievable, good evidence that Moyes was a really strong man manager at that time. I remember driving down from Scotland in August time and listening to a pre-season radio program with pundit after pundit picking us for relegation. And it was hard to disagree, an appalling season before, Rooney's departure was depressing and caused huge upheaval, squad looked really average. No one went into that season with good feelings, and it seemed the die was cast in the first game when we were murdered by Arsenal at home 4-1. Yet he turned the entire situation on its head.

When palace scored against us in the next game I remember thinking “we’re in trouble this season”.

We went on to win that match 1-3 and the rest of the season was brilliant.

 

[Titus Bramble]

I’m really bored of David Moyes

 

[Aberblue]

Just find the whole concept of this question odd.

Nobody rational questions that what Moyes did initially was tremendous and he deserves all the credit in the world for his first five or so years here. He worked wonders.

However, he then proceeded to tread water and preserve his own reputation and further the notion of "plucky little Everton" instead of meaningfully try and push on after that.

So no, nothing that has happened recently changes those facts in hindsight. Moyes was both brilliant and lacklustre, depending on what part of his tenure you look at. The failure of Martinez and Koeman doesn't impact Moyes' failure - it simply means Martinez and Koeman were failures too.

To be blunt, the last good manager we had David Moyes, circa 2008. Since then we've had three bad managers, including Moyes from 2008 onward.

I'd partly agree, but surely DM should get some credit for us reaching the FA Cup Final and finishing fifth in 2009 despite losing our best defender, midfielder and forward to long term injuries?

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Like ‘taking a knife to a gunfight’ this thread.