Does Moyes' reign look better with hindsight given the dismal performances of his successors?

[Davideeyore]

He took us as far as he could IMO but the way he left soured everything. Of course he couldn't turn down United, but he lost a bit respect in a similar way with Rooney when he left. But while we ran out of steam a few look back negatively or unfavourably actually we played some good football at times and a few of them against the likes of Arsenal and United and Citeh and even the RS were soundly beaten at Goodison. Shame about the away records against those teams I think only Citeh and Tottenham we got results against. He did bottle it so many times, it has to be said, especially the cup final and the semi against the RS.

Kenwright had a dream man I hope we now get the equivilent for Moshiri with Silva and silverware!

 

[AsiaAsia82]

I even think Gordon Lee’s reign looks better.

 

[marcus]

Moyes was a good sound manager who had passion & loved this club...

Should have won a trophy under his tenure...

 

[EFC78]

Just find the whole concept of this question odd.

Nobody rational questions that what Moyes did initially was tremendous and he deserves all the credit in the world for his first five or so years here. He worked wonders.

However, he then proceeded to tread water and preserve his own reputation and further the notion of "plucky little Everton" instead of meaningfully try and push on after that.

So no, nothing that has happened recently changes those facts in hindsight. Moyes was both brilliant and lacklustre, depending on what part of his tenure you look at. The failure of Martinez and Koeman doesn't impact Moyes' failure - it simply means Martinez and Koeman were failures too.

To be blunt, the last good manager we had David Moyes, circa 2008. Since then we've had three bad managers, including Moyes from 2008 onward.

How could he realistically take us to the next level with the limited financial backing of Bill Kenwright?

He took us about as far as he could in the circumstances. His mentality was poor in some of the away games against the top sides and a truly top manager would have been able to win a trophy with the side he had, but getting us in the top 4 even once was a huge achievement. Consistently having us in the top 6 with the resources was also very impressive.

As recent as 2015, Bill Kenwright was only the 18th richest owner of the 20 in the Premier League. But unfortunately for Moyes, the TV money wasn't around when he was here.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

I even think Gordon Lee’s reign looks better.

I think Lee's reputation has been rehabilitated to large extent as time goes by - the 70s seemed to be in a slow, sustained period of shell-shock for our fans as we came down from 1970. What I don't get with Lee, however, is any sense that he laid foundations for HK - don't know it that is completely fair but where there any Lee players in the 1984 squad? Seemed like a completely clean break and Howard built that team from the ground up.
Whereas with Martinez, say, his first and only successful season was 90% Moyes' team.

 

[EFC78]

Think it’s 5 times Moyes beat a side away from home that finished in the top 4. We haven’t done it since & iirc he was the first manager to do it since Royle.

I wouldn’t have him back in a month of Sunday’s but it’s a ridiculous line that people trot out that has little basis in fact.

I don't think that is right.

As far as I can see, it was just once. Against Man City who finished 3rd in 2010-11. The top 4 for most of that era was what SKY started labelling 'The big 4' and we still haven't beaten 3 of them since the 1990's.

Which proves to me that our record against top 4 sides with or without Moyes is an absolute disgrace. But I can't defend Moyes in these games, he was spineless in a lot of them, which was proven with his knife to a gunfight type comments.

Suggesting it's solely a Moyes thing is wide of the mark though as our last win against a top 4 side away was in late 2010 against City as I mentioned. We have a massive inferiority complex and it's no surprise that since City started regularly getting in the top 4 our away wins there stopped, despite loads of other clubs managing to go to those grounds and win.

 

[Lanolin]

We only really had good sides with Moyes when Irvine was involved in the first team. Every time he left we'd have a dip and then an upturn whenever he came back. Steve Round shouldn't have lasted as long as he did. We had a mean defence before he arrived and made us play zonal marking.

TBH it doesn't matter who the front man is, it's all about the backroom staff who work with the players every day. If the backroom staff are rubbish then you've got no hope. And for Moyes probably a big reason he was as successful as he was at EFC IMO was down to Irvine.

Totally disagree. Arguably the best seasons we had under Moyes were 2007/09, after Irvine had left. People just didn't like Round for some reason, he became a bit of a figure of fun, but as with most coaches nobody really has the faintest idea whether he was any good or not.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

Danny pls put this out of its misery

 

[SantaClausisanEvertonian]

I'm still a big fan of Moyes and will always think he was a great manager for us. If success is measured purely on trophies won, then there is an army of poor managers throughout the football league.
I wouldn't want him back though, simply because I believe that returning to manage a club you've already managed is destined to fail, sooner or later.
Even the great HK couldn't make it work for his beloved Blues.

 

[Stanley Parker]

Whereas with Martinez, say, his first and only successful season was 90% Moyes' team.

A strange statement. If Martinez had achieved his success using 100% Moyes' team, what would that have said about Moyes and Martinez as managers?

Of course Martinez relied upon players signed by Moyes, but he put out a team with a new attitude and with new tactics that were his own. And as Martinez brought in Barry, McCarthy and Lukaku, Moyes' players actually represented less than 75% of the team.

 

[MACCA75]

A strange statement. If Martinez had achieved his success using 100% Moyes' team, what would that have said about Moyes and Martinez as managers?

Of course Martinez relied upon players signed by Moyes, but he put out a team with a new attitude and with new tactics that were his own. And as Martinez brought in Barry, McCarthy and Lukaku, Moyes' players actually represented less than 75% of the team.

And they did 100% of the defending.

 

[ilikecheese]

Not really. He did well, overstayed his welcome, lowered everyone's expectations so that a distant 5th was a big deal.

He managed to fluke 4th which was a massive achievement, but he never really came close again with a much better squad.

For me in the big scheme of things, what should have been huge shoes to fill were immediately filled and improved upon. The huge shoes he tried to fill exposed him.

Ultimately, he is a coward. He once knew how to make a team better than the sum of their parts though. Not everyone can do that. We sorely need that quality right now.

 

[Rudolf Hucker]

Not really. He did well, overstayed his welcome, lowered everyone's expectations so that a distant 5th was a big deal.

He managed to fluke 4th which was a massive achievement, but he never really came close again with a much better squad.

For me in the big scheme of things, what should have been huge shoes to fill were immediately filled and improved upon. The huge shoes he tried to fill exposed him.

Ultimately, he is a coward. He once knew how to make a team better than the sum of their parts though. Not everyone can do that. We sorely need that quality right now.

I’ve highlighted the accurate bits.

 

[Stanley Parker]

And they did 100% of the defending.

No, no, no - Martinez completely changed the system of defence. He released the fullbacks - and in particular Coleman - to attack down the wings.

And he played McCarthy and Barry - two players he had brought in - in front of the back four. One of them would drop back to provide cover in defence.

It worked very well that first season, but opponents learned to press high and deny the full backs possession. Sadly, Martinez never really had a plan to overcome this.

 

[summerisle]

If only.

http://www.[Publication is blacklis...scouted-luka-modric-for-everton-before-totte/

Moyes says he scouted Luka Modric for Everton before Tottenham move
Subhankar Mondal @subhankarjourno
15 minutes ago

David Moyes says that he looked at Luka Modric


David Moyes has revealed in The Times that he scouted Luka Modric for Everton before the Real Madrid midfielder joined Tottenham Hotspur from Dinamo Zagreb in the summer of 2008.

Moyes, who is without a managerial job at the moment following his departure from West Ham United at the end of last season, was in charge of Everton from 2002 until 2013.

The former Manchester United and Sunderland manager has revealed that he scouted Modric when the Croatia international was still at Zagreb and before he moved to Tottenham in the summer of 2008 for a transfer fee reported by The Guardian to be worth £15.8 million.

Moyes wrote in The Times: “Everton were looking for a defender and I was there to scout a Dinamo Zagreb youngster called Vedran Corluka.

“Corluka was promising, but there was a little midfield player who quickly caught my eye instead. In looks he reminded me of Billy Bremner, with his blonde hair and small stature. In style he was different. He was very, very talented on the ball.

“After I came home, I kept talking about him — ‘I’ve seen this great little player in Croatia’. At the time Everton’s budget was limited and we weren’t looking for a player of his type, so I didn’t pursue him, but I kept tabs on his progress.

“Soon Manchester City signed Corluka, who later moved to Tottenham. And that brilliant little teammate of his that I’d seen — Luka Modric — joined him at White Hart Lane.

Success
Modric is one of the best midfielders in the world and has been on top of his game for a number of years now.
The Croatia international is a serial winner, having won La Liga and Copa del Rey once each and the Champions League four times.
A silky footballer who can sense a killer pass and is also great at set-pieces, the 32-year-old is going strong as ever.

Modric has also played a key role for his country Croatia at the ongoing 2018 World Cup in Russia, as they have reached the quarter-finals of the prestigious competition.