2025/26 David Moyes

[GrandOldTeam]

Potential signings wouldn't see it that way. They wouldn't care if it was because of deductions and what our real points total was.

They just saw us as being a relegation threatened financial basket case of a club. We have new owners but nobody knew for certain we wouldn't be in PSR trouble this year and if you think this doesn't have an impact on whether agents are pushing quality players to sign for us or to steer us well clear then I don't know what to tell you.

As far as the wider football world is concerned Moyes saved us from being in a fourth consecutive relegation battle and has only now brought us back to midtable mediocrity.

We do have an image problem. I've mentioned that a fair few times. Not sure whether Moyes helps that a great deal, or not.

Thankfully football has short memory.

New stadium, new owners and us not being in the press for all the wrong reasons for a spell will help.

 

[Gilbert..]

Yeah and thats fair, but most of the conversation about Moyes is about what happens next season. People aren't asking for him to be sacked tomorrow.

Not being around relegation this season is fine, next season people will expect more. And that's without getting into the issues around transfers. We're going to spend big in the summer, guaranteed. So far this season Moyes has refused to play any of the new players that he signed off on himself.

Im only replying to one person who's assassinating him in every post.
I was content to have this season away from any relegation fears. He doesnt deserve the shoeing for that reason alone.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Good post. my question is if it's true 'Moyes signs off on everything', how did we end up with Jack, Rohl, Dibling and keep Seamus, when it was obviously two decent FBs that we needed.

That's a colossal amount of money wasted in the wrong direction.

I think he does mate, based on my impression on Moyes for decades.

He also says it, as did the CEO and the clubs leading insight/journos.

I don't think we can be so conclusive yet though on whether we wasted money - we'll have a much better idea in a year or two, depending on how the likes of Rohl, Aznou and Dibling do.

We've not even paid for Rohl yet, that's near £20 from the next budget.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Im only replying to one person who's assassinating him in every post.
I was content to have this season away from any relegation fears. He doesnt deserve the shoeing for that reason alone.

I think most are in the same boat, a season off from the high blood pressure.

It's a remarkably low bar, mind, but is what it is.

 

[Efcjake]

I'm afraid it's you who's being reductive and small minded here. I'm not here calling Moyes all the names under the sun and saying he's a disgrace who needs sacking immediately, much as you seemingly want me to be.

There was a conversation/debate about the money we spent and whether it was fair to expect us to improve significantly from that. You originally wailed that it wasn't a lot when compared to other teams, then when you were put right on that you switched to wailing that we had to take into account what had happened 5 years ago, and again you were put straight, so now you're wailing that if we assume (seemingly without basis) that every single potential target put forward to Moyes was completely useless then he can be totally absolved of any blame at all for us not getting any better. It's bizarre. I haven't ever and wouldn't ever suggest that Moyes is 100% totally responsible for literally everything that ever happens at the club, nobody has said the recruitment team and scouts are beyond reproach, that's just a straw man argument you've made up. My point in my last post was basically just that either spending £60m on Barry and Dibling was a good move or it wasn't, if it wasn't then we shouldn't have done it, whether the calibre of other players being put forward was good enough or not is irrelevant to that.

Who put me straight about our spending? You? I must have missed that post pal.

We spent the 13th highest amount last summer. We spent 100 million and so did 12 other teams who spent more than us.

Oh and we currently are performing better than last season. Maybe he isn't outperforming the half season when he took over but he has improved our league position.

I don't think Moyes deserves all of the criticism for how poorly it was spent. Questions should be asked of the scouts and analysts who put these players before Moyes to choose from.

If the manager was someone other than Moyes we would be questioning the recruitment department just like we have for the last decade when we operated under directors of football.

 

[preposterousvelios]

It's reductionist because every single problem is being laid at his feet pal.

Nobody wants to acknowledge that there's issues with the scouting and recruiting departments because it's another arrow in their quiver against public enemy number one.

I look forward to him leaving so every conversation can stop receiving around how much people hate him.

It's not every single problem being laid at his feet. The squad not being utilised and players being played out of position can only be blamed on Moyes. No one else is making those decisions.

I agree that there's been an issue with scouting and recruiting, but I don't understand how anyone could not see Moyes as being fairly central to that issue? He has final say, maybe didnt get the players he wanted but he brought players in and he won't play them.

It's obvious to me that the thinking of the recruitment team is not lined up with what Moyes is thinking. We've made an effort to lower the age of the squad and shift towards developing young players. Moyes clearly does not want to prioritise doing that. At that point the conversation stops being about is Moyes a good manager (for the most part I think he is), and becomes about is Moyes the RIGHT manger for this club at this time, the squad, the objectives, the structures in place. I just don't see how anyone could seriously argue that he's the right guy for what we are wanting to do.

 

[Efcjake]

We do have an image problem. I've mentioned that a fair few times. Not sure whether Moyes helps that a great deal, or not.

Thankfully football has short memory.

New stadium, new owners and us not being in the press for all the wrong reasons for a spell will help.

I think Moyes has helped remove the taint of relegation threatened from this club.

I'm hopeful that means we can attract better talent this summer.

 

[Lanolin]

It would be incredibly naive to expect us to be much better off than we currently are, just because we got new owners. We cant do what City and Chelski did, no matter how much money our owners have. We have been sailing the roughest of seas for season on end now, being relegation candidates. We are literally a mere year away from that, and people expect us to play party football insted of clinching the odd result, keeping us around the lower part of the top 10? I think thats absurd.

edit:
Also, we are not "continuing along the same lines". We havent been near relegation at all this season, ie there been massive improvement. Rome wasnt built in a day. I also want us to fight for the top spots, but expecting it already is setting yourselves up for a disappointment.

Literally nobody has suggested they're expecting that as far as i'm aware, certainly not me or the post you were originally replying to which prompted this conversation, so that's a very odd reply to be honest. The point was just that I agree with the poster you replied to who was saying that people will lose interest if we continue to be a dull negative side. I've had a season ticket for 30 years and i'm very seriously considering giving it up at the end of the year because the combination of midweek games and really poor football has just made it a bit too much of a chore this year. I'm about as die hard a fan as you'll get and have travelled all over watching them despite us not having won a trophy since I was at primary school, if i'm saying i'm getting to that point I can assure you that many others will be too.

 

[Gilbert..]

Moyes rocked up last season, with us on 17 points from 19 games. 18th went down last season on 25 points. So Moyes needed 8 points from 19 games to see us safe. Praise the lord he managed it.

We've finished 20+ points clear the last 2 seasons, then spent a club record amount. Relegation was never a consideration this season.



It was 10 which dictated the scrap we had, reduced to 6, 2 years ago today - on 26th Feb 2024;

Everton points deduction: Punishment reduced from 10 points to six after appeal

Everton's 10-point deduction for breaching Premier League financial rules is reduced to six points on appeal.

www.bbc.co.uk

Even at then, when 10 was reduced to 6, it wasn't over as we expected more that same season which come later with another 2.

The point was - that season felt like a relegation scrap, because of the point deductions we carried. As I said, take 10 points off our total now - which we had until 26th Feb, and we'd be in a relegation scrap. Take 6 off with more to come and we'd still be anxious.

Nobody knows how last season would have panned out if dyche had stayed. But ive posted it many times. We couldnt even muster a shot at goal so its unlikely we'd have pulled away. It might not have even been moyes. Maybe any manager could have improved what dyche was doing. Fact forest sacked him and they were only 1 point better off than when he took over possibly tells you it was him though.

 

[DualityNSNO]

The older experienced players he signed were the only good ones in KDH and Grealish. There's no doubt in my mind who picked them.

All these other players he isn't using don't strike me as his choices.

We were scraping the bottom of the barrel last summer. We were getting turned down by everyone and we went right down the list simply to bring in bodies because we released 9 players from the squad and they did need replacing.

When he goes and every signing doesn't hit people will start talking about the recruitment department.

People should've been talking about it right after we signed Walsh and the briefcase in Italy moment (which resulted in absolutely nothing I think? Everton, that)

We're not scraping the bottom of the barrel, our scouting department is, I agree with you. Teams in the PL will have insane money and pull compared to everyone bar 10-15 teams in Europe, to say we never got an Igor Thiago (not that he's an amazing player but he was clearly better prepared than Barry for us here) isn't because of money/bottom of the barrel, it's because our scouting department never ventured that 'far'.

KDH and Grealish are great acquisitions and that's fantastic, but we can't set up on experienced players alone - that's when you get into the hypothetical above where there's no one for us - yeah, there's not a huge pool of PL-ready/experienced 26-29 year olds who will want to come to us, be ready, hit the ground running, know the league, etc. Sometimes you risk it a bit on a 22-24 year old from abroad, but we seemingly don't know they exist and can't scout them so we go for someone like Barry or Beto for ridiculous money.

As I've said here (most likely honestly to you? haha) - I don't mind Moyes staying this year, maybe next too, but we absolutely genuinely NEED to act fast this summer and not leave it to the end. And we'll need a mix where both young and "experienced" to actually play, not to shoehorn a badly out of form 30123 year old Gana instead of playing any young player available.

I also hope that with us being better/firmer in the middle of the league and with huge upside (stadium, owners, fabled stability and all that) we'll be able to easily attract better overall, but I don't know how Moyes fits in that plan. He has a tendency to do his own thing and I personally believe he signs off on transfers (or blocks them, etc.), and he did get his brother back into the scouting department IIRC, or is at least very close to it.

Positivity, eh? Hope that kills you

 

[DualityNSNO]

Nobody knows how last season would have panned out if dyche had stayed.

That's factually not true, GafferMan was taking us down for sure.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Who put me straight about our spending? You? I must have missed that post pal.

We spent the 13th highest amount last summer. We spent 100 million and so did 12 other teams who spent more than us.

Oh and we currently are performing better than last season. Maybe he isn't outperforming the half season when he took over but he has improved our league position.

I don't think Moyes deserves all of the criticism for how poorly it was spent. Questions should be asked of the scouts and analysts who put these players before Moyes to choose from.

If the manager was someone other than Moyes we would be questioning the recruitment department just like we have for the last decade when we operated under directors of football.

I always think Net spend is a better illustration.

I mean, if we spent £100m this summer, but sold Ndiaye and Branthwaite for £120m, I woudn't be saying we spent £100m.

With that;

[Edit] The above doesn't include Rohl obligation at £18-20m

 

[Lanolin]

Who put me straight about our spending? You? I must have missed that post pal.

We spent the 13th highest amount last summer. We spent 100 million and so did 12 other teams who spent more than us.

Oh and we currently are performing better than last season. Maybe he isn't outperforming the half season when he took over but he has improved our league position.

I don't think Moyes deserves all of the criticism for how poorly it was spent. Questions should be asked of the scouts and analysts who put these players before Moyes to choose from.

If the manager was someone other than Moyes we would be questioning the recruitment department just like we have for the last decade when we operated under directors of football.

But we are criticising the recruitment department pal? Moyes heads up recruitment, he is the figure head and so the lightning rod for criticism, that doesn't mean people think he's literally the sole reason for the issue. You don't think Thelwell was handpicking all the players we signed himself do you? He was the one who signed off on them so he generally got the praise or criticism depending on how it went, that's always going to be how it goes. We don't have threads for every scout, we're fans talking in general terms here not headhunters going into the finer details of who was responsible for what.

 

[Gilbert..]

That's factually not true, GafferMan was taking us down for sure.

I think it was nailed on tbh but others clearly dont. The biggest groan to be heard when he was sacked was ipswich. They were looking at Everton like a lion does a gazelle.

 

[Curtis]

I'm still just baffled how he lets gana have free reign all over the pitch he should not be near the sideline on the wing belting crosses in the box. He was incredibly out of position for our goal conceded to united. He's not that type of player where should be making offensive forays with the ball especially on the wing