2025/26 David Moyes

[wandyr79]

To be honest, midtable is hard. Means you have good performances and bad performances. Everyone thinks you should kick on but it’s not that easy. The teams above us have largely spent more than us over a period of time.
If we were to make any changes I would start with forking out a fortune for the back end team at Brentford or Brighton. Until that improves I would stick with Moyes for another couple of seasons, enjoy a conference league win and couple of top half finishes.
Failing that, risky young foreign manager that 7 out of 10 times is likely to fail. And if they do do well, will take the next big job that comes along.
You are right about nuance - improving to midtable is actually quite boring - everyone would have said we would take it at the start of the season, but it now doesn’t seem enough

Moyes had this problem in his first spell. We were down and out when he came in, aging sqaud, etc. Then he was finsihing regularly in the top half/Europeean places, but that did not come for a few seasons. We were up and down before the regularity of those finishes came about. People then wanted more, because he increase the expectation and we had a taste of it. His major flaw was that extra push to give us more.

This time around, everybody would be giving their left arm to be in the position we are now in. Now we are in that position, the fans want more and rightly so, but patience is very much the key word that is going to be overused, in the next few months/year.

 

[bicycleheader]

I’m not talking so much about the fans who want success. We all should.

I’m talking about the ones who turn their noses up because we don’t play like Brighton/Bournemouth. Pine for the likes of Iraola, who hasn’t achieved anything in this league.

They’re the cork-sniffers.

I don't mind anybody preferring a different style. People say only results matter but that is just their opinion. Many fans care about being entertained as well. All just preferences. I didn't give a damn how we played under Dyche. Get the points. I care now though

I dunno about the manager thing tho. It's highly possible we get one where it could be claimed they've never achieved anything of note. Can't say I'm pining for any one in particular though. Surprise me EFC! Just not one of the nasty surprises they've specialised these last few years....

 

[Lanolin]

Moyes had this problem in his first spell. We were down and out when he came in, aging sqaud, etc. Then he was finsihing regularly in the top half/Europeean places, but that did not come for a few seasons. We were up and down before the regularity of those finishes came about. People then wanted more, because he increase the expectation and we had a taste of it. His major flaw was that extra push to give us more.

This time around, everybody would be giving their left arm to be in the position we are now in. Now we are in that position, the fans want more and rightly so, but patience is very much the key word that is going to be overused, in the next few months/year.

See I think this is where the differences in opinion come in. In the last 2 seasons we've finished (in terms of points gained at least) 12th and 13th. If we were to lose on saturday we could very conceivably be back down to 13th, so I'm not sure where the idea that we'd all have bitten your hand off for where we are has come from, it's pretty much where we've been for 2 years and for most of that time people have been convinced that the manager was a completely incompetent idiot. For me where we are at the moment is fine, if we finish 10th that's acceptable but not really any more than that, i'd say anything above 8th would be good and anything below 11th would be disappointing, in between is par.

 

[bicycleheader]

I think the part that was too much for some was the freefall in form and the fact he was obviously unable to keep any kind of cohesive team going, and also the "I don't believe in defending" comments.

There's probably two truths. A lot of fans turned on him way too quickly. However the decision to sack can't really be argued with and could have happened earlier.

 

[Swartzy]

Did we change manager in the 2nd half? Because it was the opposite of the first half, so something must have changed. As you said, Moyes only has one way of playing. There were a few really quick one twos and chances created in the 2nd half. So, who was managing us in the 2nd half?

He got it wrong in the first half, along with the players not doing the basics. It was changed and it was better, not perfect but a lot better.

Well that was probably the first time Baines got up and started speaking to him, so you never know..

Nah that was big for Moyes, he didn't just make early changes, he completely changed the formation.
And for a "supposed" risk adverse Manager, that was a massive call.

Learn from that decision, and have the balls to do it more often.

 

[wandyr79]

See I think this is where the differences in opinion come in. In the last 2 seasons we've finished (in terms of points gained at least) 12th and 13th. If we were to lose on saturday we could very conceivably be back down to 13th, so I'm not sure where the idea that we'd all have bitten your hand off for where we are has come from, it's pretty much where we've been for 2 years and for most of that time people have been convinced that the manager was a completely incompetent idiot. For me where we are at the moment is fine, if we finish 10th that's acceptable but not really any more than that, i'd say anything above 8th would be good and anything below 11th would be disappointing, in between is par.

Neither season were we completely out of relegation worries though.

All this season, the threat of relegation has not been there. Moyes is the reason we finished in that position, before he came in were 1 point above the relegation zone.

The finishing position is different to what I am talking about, I am in the here and now. We are, as a fan base looking up for the first time in 4/5 seasons. If we finish lower, then yes, I would say that it has been a failure. I agree with your positions analysis, although it depends if par is deemed good or not. Is it a difficult par 3 where par is gaining ground on the field, or an easy par 5 where par is losing ground to the field .

 

[MACCA75]

Would like to see this (with Aznou). Is essentially Amorim’s formation but with 2 mobile central midfielders which was always Man Utd’s problem.

 

[Lanolin]

Neither season were we completely out of relegation worries though.

All this season, the threat of relegation has not been there. Moyes is the reason we finished in that position, before he came in were 1 point above the relegation zone.

The finishing position is different to what I am talking about, I am in the here and now. We are, as a fan base looking up for the first time in 4/5 seasons. If we finish lower, then yes, I would say that it has been a failure. I agree with your positions analysis, although it depends if par is deemed good or not. Is it a difficult par 3 where par is gaining ground on the field, or an easy par 5 where par is losing ground to the field .

We finished 22 and 23 points clear of relegation in those seasons in terms of points won. I'm not saying last season wasn't in large part down to Moyes coming in but that doesn't change the point at hand at all. I don't see why some people want to claim we'd have 'given our left arm' to find ourselves in a very similar position to the one we've finished the last 2 seasons in, it's just not true.

 

[davids]

Moyes had this problem in his first spell. We were down and out when he came in, aging sqaud, etc. Then he was finsihing regularly in the top half/Europeean places, but that did not come for a few seasons. We were up and down before the regularity of those finishes came about. People then wanted more, because he increase the expectation and we had a taste of it. His major flaw was that extra push to give us more.

This time around, everybody would be giving their left arm to be in the position we are now in. Now we are in that position, the fans want more and rightly so, but patience is very much the key word that is going to be overused, in the next few months/year.

But will the owners see it that way,the American business model is to be successful asap. To increase income Moyes has to get European football. Going out of both cups at a very early stage I doubt will sit well with them.

 

[Swartzy]

Martinez scored the most points in the last 3 decades so that would make him the best by an objective measure.

He got the most points from a team that was handed to him.

Slott won the league with a team that was handed to him

Look how they both followed on from it.

 

[Rudolf Hucker]

And also squandered our best striker in a generation playing boring insipid football. The first season was exciting because it was different and we went on a run but the passing side to side continuously quickly became dull as ditch water.

You can reinvent history to fit your narrative.

I’m sure I remember being sat at Wembley watching that striker squander 3 clear chances & a penalty. Maybe I dreamt that?

If Barry, Barkley, Deulofeu, Lukaku was boring & insipid, what would you call Moyes?

 

[Rudolf Hucker]

Moyes game plan is like Pinball. The ball always finds its way to Pickford’s big flipper & gets launched to the other end. Whatever happens up there is left to chance.

 

[wandyr79]

We finished 22 and 23 points clear of relegation in those seasons in terms of points won. I'm not saying last season wasn't in large part down to Moyes coming in but that doesn't change the point at hand at all. I don't see why some people want to claim we'd have 'given our left arm' to find ourselves in a very similar position to the one we've finished the last 2 seasons in, it's just not true.

Again though, I am not talking about the end of the season.

I am talking about the here and now compared to the same time in previous seasons. That feeling of looking up and not down. We have not finished the season, so any opinion comparing previous seasons final positions to where we are currently with just over half of the season complete, cannot be done. If we finish in the same position, then of course we have not progressed, it has just been a different way to get to the same outcome.

The question has to be asked. At the same time in previous seasons have you felt as positive? For me, nowhere near as positive, that is what I would have 'given my left arm' for. You may not be as positive and still looking down and I have nothing against that. That is what happens whena team is mid table having an up and down season. Is it going to stay up and down and level out at the end, or is it going to be more ups or downs, the cliche of the glass half full or empty.

 

[Lanolin]

Again though, I am not talking about the end of the season.

I am talking about the here and now compared to the same time in previous seasons. That feeling of looking up and not down. We have not finished the season, so any opinion comparing previous seasons final positions to where we are currently with just over half of the season complete, cannot be done. If we finish in the same position, then of course we have not progressed, it has just been a different way to get to the same outcome.

The question has to be asked. At the same time in previous seasons have you felt as positive? For me, nowhere near as positive, that is what I would have 'given my left arm' for. You may not be as positive and still looking down and I have nothing against that. That is what happens whena team is mid table having an up and down season. Is it going to stay up and down and level out at the end, or is it going to be more ups or downs, the cliche of the glass half full or empty.

But my expectations of what we'll do this season aren't based on where we were halfway through the season 2 years ago, obviously. Where we finished in those seasons is what's relevant when deciding what I'm happy with now, because it's actually happened. This isn't a hypothetical, it's a point based on actual facts. I'm not sure what point you're making? Are you saying that we'd have given our left arm to be 10th at this point of the season 2 years ago? I assumed you were saying just generally, like at the start of this season we'd have done it, but maybe you meant at some random points in the past we'd have been happy with this? Even then it's probably worth noting that 2 years ago without the deductions we'd have been 12th at this point so again I very much wouldn't have given my left arm to be 2 places higher with the possibility of actually going lower in the next few days. Maybe you hate your left arm?

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

You can reinvent history to fit your narrative.

I’m sure I remember being sat at Wembley watching that striker squander 3 clear chances & a penalty. Maybe I dreamt that?

If Barry, Barkley, Deulofeu, Lukaku was boring & insipid, what would you call Moyes?

Our best manager since Kendall.