David Moyes/Everton Big Game Mentality

[steken1]

The quote to which you replied made mention of the "mind boggling at what we might achieve" with a bit of inspiration which a fresh man at the helm might achieve.

"Might...won a cup" is exactly the achievement we should be in the business of striving for. I know we won't be Barcelona, and I know we won't be able to compete at the very top table, but to hoist a shiny tin pot aloft and be able to swing from a lamp-post on Priory Road as the open-top bus chugs past is good enough for me.

Sadly, it'll NEVER happen under glum plums.

I agree. I'd love to win any cup we go in for. But the mind doesn't 'boggle' for me as we're quite capable of winning it as is bar our managers mentality. That post clearly alluded to us going on to much bigger and better things. We wouldn't.

 

[MartSlinger]

There has been 8 big games this season and Moyes has lost them all ffs.

So Man City and Man United at home aren't classed as 'BIG GAMES' then?
I absolutely hate Moyes' record at certain grounds and in certain games, but it seems people change the definition of a 'big game' to suit an agenda.

 

[Allezfan]

Ihaters was being sarcastic. We've only lost 8 games all season.

He was just saying that any definition that includes sunderland away as a big game is basically 'the ones we lose'. I agree with him on that.

Sunderland away just isn't a big game.

 

[steken1]

Ihaters was being sarcastic. We've only lost 8 games all season.

He was just saying that any definition that includes sunderland away as a big game is basically 'the ones we lose'. I agree with him on that.

Sunderland away just isn't a big game.

If it was to win the league it'd be our biggest game of the season and one of the biggest in our history. I agree that people are moving the goalposts as to what constitutes a big game but what's riding on it is everything IMO.

 

[bflefc]

I agree. I'd love to win any cup we go in for. But the mind doesn't 'boggle' for me as we're quite capable of winning it as is bar our managers mentality. That post clearly alluded to us going on to much bigger and better things. We wouldn't.

But my mind certainly boggles at the dream of a cup. Which is absolutely "much bigger and better things". And if you're suggesting that we're already capable of winning it bar our current manager's mentality, then as this thread is about Moyes' cast-iron guaranteed ****ting out when the big games come around, it surely stands to reason that getting shot of him at long last certainly gets the mind racing as to the potential of us perhaps achieving something.

No guarantee, clearly - but the mind certainly boggles. You've said we've already got the potential in terms of quality, and it's only Moyes holding us back. This is absolutely the case.

 

[Allezfan]

If it was to win the league it'd be our biggest game of the season and one of the biggest in our history. I agree that people are moving the goalposts as to what constitutes a big game but what's riding on it is everything IMO.

Sure but it wasn't to win the league.

If we'd gone into the last week of the season, with chelsea and city to play and 4th and a cup in our hands, those would be big games.

We won't because over the course of the season we didn't win enough small games like sunderland and norwich away to be in contention.

People say Moyes bottles big games, the fact is Moyes has only ever managed in one big game. The problem with moyes is we're not good enough to actually get to the big games.

 

[bflefc]

Sure but it wasn't to win the league.

If we'd gone into the last week of the season, with chelsea and city to play and 4th and a cup in our hands, those would be big games.

We won't because over the course of the season we didn't win enough small games like sunderland and norwich away to be in contention.

People say Moyes bottles big games, the fact is Moyes has only ever managed in one big game. The problem with moyes is we're not good enough to actually get to the big games.

Total horse-****.

Cup semi finals are big games; league games when you know it's now or never, where a slip pretty much condemns you to being out of the race for Europe etc. These are big games. It's when the pressure is on, and it doesn't have to be the final game of the league campaign, or the Final of a cup competition. Each passing game increases with importance if you're in the mix, and when you get to the semis (some would argue quarters) of a Cup, or you enter the final half a dozen or so league games, they all kind of become cup finals as so much hinges on them.

A cup semi is infinitely more of a pressure game than a 3rd round tie. A league game away at Sunderland is much more of a big game in April than the previous season in October, or against a similar-placed side the same season earlier on. It's all about stepping up to the plate and being able to cope with the pressure when it matters most. As you enter the final stages, every match pretty much takes on the mantle of a big game.

Moyes has played one final (awful), plus a semi against the ****e (repeat), Chelsea in the League Cup (err, recurring theme here), and even in the run-in to finishing 4th in 2005 we pretty much limped over the line. The ****e lost it during that run-in. Fulham away sticks in my memory; it seemed like 10,000 of us down there, a win would almost seal it for us: we were dire, and played with far too much conservative caution and fear. Fortunately, that lot also dropped points at the crucial time.

Moyes has overseen plenty of big games. Even the victory over United in the 2009 semi was turgid and we were taken to penalties by a scratch United eleven. Again, that afternoon had Moyes' big game mentality stamped all over it.

 

[Ihaters]

So Man City and Man United at home aren't classed as 'BIG GAMES' then?
I absolutely hate Moyes' record at certain grounds and in certain games, but it seems people change the definition of a 'big game' to suit an agenda.

What Artetafan said mate.
I think Moyes is a great manager but when we win at City and its meh and expected because of the Wigan game, then when we lose at Sunderland it is suddenly the most important game of the season, can't help but feel just a little bit of agenda in there.
Poor result, but with Spurs winning, it was a pretty meaningless one too imo, even with 3 points Spurs and Chelsea are beyond us now.
If we had won and Spurs and Chelsea lost then maybe it was still on but a draw and a win for those two pretty much sealed it for me.

 

[steken1]

But my mind certainly boggles at the dream of a cup. Which is absolutely "much bigger and better things". And if you're suggesting that we're already capable of winning it bar our current manager's mentality, then as this thread is about Moyes' cast-iron guaranteed ****ting out when the big games come around, it surely stands to reason that getting shot of him at long last certainly gets the mind racing as to the potential of us perhaps achieving something.

No guarantee, clearly - but the mind certainly boggles. You've said we've already got the potential in terms of quality, and it's only Moyes holding us back. This is absolutely the case.

In the cups I agree. IMO over his reign we should have seen at least one cup win. If we'd won two that would be brilliant. But you and I both know that weren't what Nigel was getting at. We will not better Moyes league performance by more than 1 place unless we got Jose Mourinho IMO.

 

[Ihaters]

Total horse-****.

Cup semi finals are big games; league games when you know it's now or never, where a slip pretty much condemns you to being out of the race for Europe etc. These are big games. It's when the pressure is on, and it doesn't have to be the final game of the league campaign, or the Final of a cup competition. Each passing game increases with importance if you're in the mix, and when you get to the semis (some would argue quarters) of a Cup, or you enter the final half a dozen or so league games, they all kind of become cup finals as so much hinges on them.

A cup semi is infinitely more of a pressure game than a 3rd round tie. A league game away at Sunderland is much more of a big game in April than the previous season in October, or against a similar-placed side the same season earlier on. It's all about stepping up to the plate and being able to cope with the pressure when it matters most. As you enter the final stages, every match pretty much takes on the mantle of a big game.

Clearly Moyes is good enough then, after all he got to the final beating Liverpool and United, can't get bigger pressure than that. Also year after year when it comes to being in the mix when every game counts, Moyes gets the players firing on full and finishing in CL form so he must have that mentality in the league too..

 

[steken1]

Sure but it wasn't to win the league.

If we'd gone into the last week of the season, with chelsea and city to play and 4th and a cup in our hands, those would be big games.

We won't because over the course of the season we didn't win enough small games like sunderland and norwich away to be in contention.

People say Moyes bottles big games, the fact is Moyes has only ever managed in one big game. The problem with moyes is we're not good enough to actually get to the big games.

No it weren't but my point was that the importance (size) of a game is based on what's at stake more than the opponent. It's not occasion Moyes struggles with IMO it's expectation. When there's any he folds.

 

[Allezfan]

As you enter the final stages, every match pretty much takes on the mantle of a big game.

Exactly.

We've known one loss would send us out of the race for europe since before reading, this just happened to be the only game of those 7 we've lost.

Either all 7 are big games or, more sensibly, none are. Because a big game you achieve something by winning. When you have to go on and win another 5 games in order for that win to mean anything, it's not a big game.

A proper big game is a final or a decider where you win this happens, you lose this happens with no disclaimers. The last one of those we've had in the league was coventry.

 

[dixie7]

Total horse-****.

Cup semi finals are big games; league games when you know it's now or never, where a slip pretty much condemns you to being out of the race for Europe etc. These are big games. It's when the pressure is on, and it doesn't have to be the final game of the league campaign, or the Final of a cup competition. Each passing game increases with importance if you're in the mix, and when you get to the semis (some would argue quarters) of a Cup, or you enter the final half a dozen or so league games, they all kind of become cup finals as so much hinges on them.

A cup semi is infinitely more of a pressure game than a 3rd round tie. A league game away at Sunderland is much more of a big game in April than the previous season in October, or against a similar-placed side the same season earlier on. It's all about stepping up to the plate and being able to cope with the pressure when it matters most. As you enter the final stages, every match pretty much takes on the mantle of a big game.

Moyes has played one final (awful), plus a semi against the ****e (repeat), Chelsea in the League Cup (err, recurring theme here), and even in the run-in to finishing 4th in 2005 we pretty much limped over the line. The ****e lost it during that run-in. Fulham away sticks in my memory; it seemed like 10,000 of us down there, a win would almost seal it for us: we were dire, and played with far too much conservative caution and fear. Fortunately, that lot also dropped points at the crucial time.

Moyes has overseen plenty of big games. Even the victory over United in the 2009 semi was turgid and we were taken to penalties by a scratch United eleven. Again, that afternoon had Moyes' big game mentality stamped all over it.

This

Its almost as if he doesent know what to do when we are close to winning/qualifying for something. he does all of the hard work getting into the position and then ****s it up in one foul swoop

 

[bflefc]

Clearly Moyes is good enough then, after all he got to the final beating Liverpool and United, can't get better than that. Also year after year when it comes to being in the mix when every game counts, Moyes gets the players firing on full and finishing in CL form so he must have that mentality in the league too..

Err, were you at that game?

As for players firing on full as the season ends, its usually when the pressure is off and we mount a late surge. Hence, it's not really a pressure-cooker situation, whereas those in the front-runner spots are the ones looking over their shoulders and the pressure is on them, not on us.

 

[MartSlinger]

What Artetafan said mate.
I think Moyes is a great manager but when we win at City and its meh and expected because of the Wigan game, then when we lose at Sunderland it is suddenly the most important game of the season, can't help but feel just a little bit of agenda in there.
Poor result, but with Spurs winning, it was a pretty meaningless one too imo, even with 3 points Spurs and Chelsea are beyond us now.
If we had won and Spurs and Chelsea lost then maybe it was still on but a draw and a win for those two pretty much sealed it for me.

Apologies mate haha, thought you was being serious haha!