Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Tipp blue]

Did you read @Number_25 's excellent posts yesterday? He works on the models used by the Welsh government and explicitly said that they strive to avoid lockdowns.

I don't really see much point in modeling, certainly not in Ireland, we were doing better than the models most optimistic scenario yet here we are with restrictions reintroduced yesterday.. Can @Number_25 somehow introduce government stupidity into his machine.

 

[Death]

Hope you're alright Jay, and welcome back xx

Ah sure look i got a 4k telly and a ps5 the other day. Ill pass the time we'll. Off for a week on x mas eve anyway.

Thanks prev. Good to be back

 

[Death]

Did you catch it off Benitez ?

Reported.

 

[BlueToff]

Most surveys into why people leave nursing don't suggest that pay is an issue (or not the main issue at least). Far and away a biggest challenge is stress and burnout, with this especially problematic if you're on night shifts. I think I've mentioned before, but GSTT aren't really tackling the root causes of stress among staff and instead allocate mindfulness apps and things like that which merely stick over it rather than address it. It doesn't seem to help that the commissioning groups are constantly asking the NHS to do more with less. There's a huge target culture.

yep that's a very good point, and one that can be missed by the brigade that just insist on more pay

But, and I've made this point a few times recently, I don't mean to sound harsh, but if you work in a medical profession, then you know that if something like a pandemic happens, you're going to be needed. Now the issue is the support not being there for people who need it.

 

[BlueToff]

Don't forget though. People are still people and have their beliefs. Many have been in nursing for donkeys years. Decades before this ever happened. These people have their views and will stick with them.
Was talking to somebody the other day. She is a conspiracy theory nutcase and believes it is all nonsense. Like Bill gates and control everything kind of crazyz and she ain't alone in that.

Yeah I get that, but you know, they're working in frontline services, they should be jabbed up

 

[mill]

Were you at Leeds Uni then or Huddersfield?

It used to have Bretton College of Art which was good for the city I think, but that closed down some time ago now.

I was at Sheffield doing music tech but the studios were on the A61 and closer to wakey. I was at manygates which were one of the Bretton hall residences and so all my mates were actors and musicians studying at bretton/Leeds

It was across the road from the foresters pub.

I think it’s all gone now though. Keep meaning to drive up and have a look.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

yep that's a very good point, and one that can be missed by the brigade that just insist on more pay

But, and I've made this point a few times recently, I don't mean to sound harsh, but if you work in a medical profession, then you know that if something like a pandemic happens, you're going to be needed. Now the issue is the support not being there for people who need it.

Again though, I would suggest that isn't so much to do with pay but rather either too much being asked of people or insufficient tools and support provided to allow what is being asked to be achieved. I suspect most staff have a reasonable idea of what "good" looks like, and their motivation will be on being able to deliver as close to that as possible.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I don't really see much point in modeling, certainly not in Ireland, we were doing better than the models most optimistic scenario yet here we are with restrictions reintroduced yesterday.. Can @Number_25 somehow introduce government stupidity into his machine.

All modeling is is an attempt to understand what has been and what might be to come. I'm not sure either could really be regarded as redundant, surely?

 

[mill]

All modeling is is an attempt to understand what has been and what might be to come. I'm not sure either could really be regarded as redundant, surely?

It’s a quantitative process designed to inform qualitative analysis.

It creates an agent to help form part of a decision making process. That’s it.

It’s not meant to be some kind of oracle.

 

[Lee Smith]

that's true, yeah a huge issue - they need to get a handle on that by reducing the isolation period or getting accurate daily testing in place.

Key workers like that should have access to rapid, extremely accurate tests

We did have 2,280 being admitted to hospital this same day last year though mate.

My wife works in our regional hospital, she’s working night shift tonight and she is one of only 3 HCA’s on shift, where usually they have at least 7. This is to cover a whole ward (5 x 6 bed bays (2 of which are high dependency / enhanced care), plus a few side rooms). She is also a recent starter and is meant to still be on supernumerary shifts so she shouldn’t actually be counted in the staff numbers until the new year.

Staff shortages almost exclusively due to Covid related issues. For example her colleague tested positive a couple of weeks ago, isolated for 10 days, and on the day she was due to return to work, her husband tested positive, now she has to isolate for ANOTHER 10 days. It’s absolutely crazy.

Bank staff all turning down shifts as they don’t want to risk catching Covid and having to isolate over Xmas (fair enough, that’s a benefit of being bank I guess).

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Again though, I would suggest that isn't so much to do with pay but rather either too much being asked of people or insufficient tools and support provided to allow what is being asked to be achieved. I suspect most staff have a reasonable idea of what "good" looks like, and their motivation will be on being able to deliver as close to that as possible.

Pay was alright subsiding housing to boot, lived in "Virginia Water" stock broker belt for years, kids refer to it as home rented at fraction of the price others were paying.

If you like sitting in the ivory tower telling someone what they should be doing or accessing third sector, as you try and get them off the books within 6 weeks " individual has responsibility". Go and work as a nurse in a community mental health while sipping cha latte.

Not nursed now for 12 years since quitting, best decision I made, would not go back if they tripled the wage, could see the target sign posting culture rabidly become modus operandi.

 

[grandjoeblue]

My wife works in our regional hospital, she’s working night shift tonight and she is one of only 3 HCA’s on shift, where usually they have at least 7. This is to cover a whole ward (5 x 6 bed bays (2 of which are high dependency / enhanced care), plus a few side rooms). She is also a recent starter and is meant to still be on supernumerary shifts so she shouldn’t actually be counted in the staff numbers until the new year.

Staff shortages almost exclusively due to Covid related issues. For example her colleague tested positive a couple of weeks ago, isolated for 10 days, and on the day she was due to return to work, her husband tested positive, now she has to isolate for ANOTHER 10 days. It’s absolutely crazy.

Bank staff all turning down shifts as they don’t want to risk catching Covid and having to isolate over Xmas (fair enough, that’s a benefit of being bank I guess).

Surely they should change the rules about having to isolate if she's literally just been positive? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

 

[TN Toffee]

Is there anything resembling a consensus amongst the medical community as to their advice on how to deal with this surge? Every article I read just says they are calling for “more restrictions” but there doesn’t seem to be a lot of detail as to what that actually means. It could fall anywhere on the spectrum between closing large events and indoor dining for a couple weeks all the way to another six month lockdown. Obviously their advice is always going to skew to the draconian, as it’s not part of their job to take any wider societal factors into account.

 

[woomy]

Again though, I would suggest that isn't so much to do with pay but rather either too much being asked of people or insufficient tools and support provided to allow what is being asked to be achieved. I suspect most staff have a reasonable idea of what "good" looks like, and their motivation will be on being able to deliver as close to that as possible.

Its the whole shebang. The reason why frontline are doing so much is the staffing numbers. If you had the staffing, then controversial statement, but nursing is actually ok paid. £27k then £32k in 2 years plus £3-4k in enhancements on average no matter what your base salary for those on shift work. It's not actually that poorly paid. Plus then the opportunity to move up banding. It's actually not that bad for 37.5hrs a week with 7 week's holiday and decent pension contributions.
But when you look at the extra you have to do to cover the shortfall of staff. Then it gets into not being enough. Plus the lack of management support.

I also believe that the pay thing needs scrapping and moved to a more nuanced system. You work in ED, ICU, midwife, forensic mental health etc. You should get more than the nurse on a non specialist ward who literally tells a student to do a patient's observations and hands out some medication, which has been prescribed by somebody else.

 

[Toffe3m4n]

Javid went up in my estimations with his recent comments about the unvaccinated. It's about time our Health Secretary told it like it is.